Klipsch is Resting on Laurels of a Glorious Past

[TBrennan]

Dean---Bull****? Not a persausive argument. Though I recall that ole PWK was fond of the term when discussing speakers that ran woofers far up into the midrange, know what I mean?

You have little or no experience with theatre systems in home use, I have considerable experience. So my guess as to how the Klipsch theatre systems would sound in a home is better informed than yours. Note that Altec and JBL theatre systems sound fine in homes. But then you wouldn't know that.

Note that the 325 is meant to be bi-amped, therefore one would pick their own crossover and CD horn EQ. So the speaker could be easily custom fit tonally to a home situation. By the way Dean, the 325 is meant for behind screen use, not use high overhead.

Note too that John Mayer, the HPS guy, used stock, un EQed LaScalas in behind screen situations. Eh, no way they could sound good in a home then.

[TBrennan]

Ole Hardhead says "You all ought to read carefully the Dope From Hope papers that Gil so kindly provided access to on the forum. Except for the Heritage line, the speakers that are currently being built at Klipsch are the opposite of everything Paul Klipsch stood for and believed in."

Indeed.

[jwc]

Finally, people are chimming in on the pro line. I too wonder if the 325 would make a good center channel. Does it come with grills to make it cosmetically good for the home? Would I have to get some custom crossovers? Deans, you make that?

I would agree with most here that the Heritage line seems to bring on the most conversation. I have la scalas with ALK networks. As a full range speaker they are lacking in bass. This can be solved with a high quality sub.

Before the ALK's or newer design crossovers, I would say these speakers are not worth having; from one arguement only. They go for about 800$ on EBAY. Without an upgrade of some kind, i'm sure there are others that would argue that other 800$ speakers are "better".

I would too agree that the Forte would have to be added to your lineup. I think I may choose these over Heresy's for my future surrounds.

jc

[lipinski]

KT:

I love my 16 year old forte IIs, academy and KGs.

None of which made your list. I haven't heard any other speakers that come close to sounding as good even with a substantial budget.

just my opinion.

Your initiation of this thread has very little substance. Just somewhat of a loud obnoxious poorly made opinion other than you've had some quality problems. Ok. If your opinion had any kind of substance related to sound quality, it might have a little bit of credance.

[J.4knee]

Ding Rd # 1 OVER

Rd #2 OK now lets throw Biwire and cables into the fray.

[Deang]

"Except for the Heritage line, the speakers that are currently being built at Klipsch are the opposite of everything Paul Klipsch stood for and believed in."

I thought he believed in high sensitivity and low distortion? I thought he believed in good sound. Try to keep in the mind the various price points the new stuff covers, and consider that regardless of the price point -- the particular Klipsch speaker covering that price point pretty much buries everything else around it.

"You have little or no experience with theatre systems in home use, I have considerable experience. So my guess as to how the Klipsch theatre systems would sound in a home is better informed than yours. Note that Altec and JBL theatre systems sound fine in homes. But then you wouldn't know that."

That's true, I don't have any experience with them -- I'll have to concede that point. It's just, I look at them, and see something designed for high power applications. I guess I think " PA sound" -- so I write them off for home use. There is something to be said for smoothness and finesse. As far as biamping and EQ'ing goes, I just don't see that as the solution for obtaining the best integration between drivers, and the best overall response. A lot of work to that right, and most just don't have the skills to pull it off -- I know I don't.

I wish you would lighten up on Klipsch.

[TBrennan]

Dean---So you look at a sophisticated Altec or JBL driver and think lousy PA sound but you look at the bullhorn drivers on Klipsch Heritages and don't?

Go figure.

I own Klipsch speakers now and have owned several sets in the past and long before you ever did. I see their flaws as well as their virtues. Evidently you do too as you seek to improve them yourself.

[dodger]

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On 2/8/2005 11:16:52 PM DeanG wrote:

"Except for the Heritage line, the speakers that are currently being built at Klipsch are the opposite of everything Paul Klipsch stood for and believed in."

I thought he believed in high sensitivity and low distortion? I thought he believed in good sound. Try to keep in the mind the various price points the new stuff covers, and consider that regardless of the price point -- the particular Klipsch speaker covering that price point pretty much buries everything else around it.

"You have little or no experience with theatre systems in home use, I have considerable experience. So my guess as to how the Klipsch theatre systems would sound in a home is better informed than yours. Note that Altec and JBL theatre systems sound fine in homes. But then you wouldn't know that."

That's true, I don't have any experience with them -- I'll have to concede that point. It's just, I look at them, and see something designed for high power applications. I guess I think " PA sound" -- so I write them off for home use. There is something to be said for smoothness and finesse. As far as biamping and EQ'ing goes, I just don't see that as the solution for obtaining the best integration between drivers, and the best overall response. A lot of work to that right, and most just don't have the skills to pull it off -- I know I don't.

I wish you would lighten up on Klipsch.

----------------

Greetings:

Have had the pro in home. Used McIntosh, Yamaha, Crate, E-V, Technics class A, Adcom.

Perosonally I did not care for them. The throw seemed wrong for what I would call an average room.

Dean noted behind the Screen OR overhead - no definitive. But I have seen and worked where they were hung over head - who chose, NOT me.

If bi-amping is the issue, can do that with home use.

What size room did you use them in?

Brand, Model of amplifier?

Tubed or solid State?

Distance from Sweet spot

What type of music?

As people evolve, so do choices.

I am a Heritage line owner, but can be open to what is being built now. That Includes being open to those who love the RF-7.

As Dean made his comments, it can be pictured that PWK could be standing there saying the same thing regardig some principles.

Opinions are that. People can read this and yellow button it,

But my experiences are what back up my position. It's simple.

dodger

[sfogg]

"Note too that John Mayer, the HPS guy,"

Think you mean John Allen.

http://hps4000.com/pages/bclass_.html

When I was looking for surrounds for my front Altec/Klipsch speakers I e-mailed about a couple of the Klipsch theater models but didn't get any response.

Shawn

[dodger]

Hi Shawn:

For me, I'm persistent. If I receive no reply from an email, I will call. The human to human contact does help a bit.

Hope this helps - or ask for his Supervisor.

dodger

[ooteedee]

My experience with Klipsch products is nill. (Except for the FrankenScalas and pair of Heresy's my friend had.)

I only know the name, and the respect they earned in the past.

When I encountered the Pro Media setup at Best Buy I was surprised to see them. I didn't even think they were still in business.

I assumed a big company bought them and started making low cost stuff.

Is the business still in the family??

[TBrennan]

Shawn---Yes, John Allen.

There are several shows around Chicago using his superb HPS systems with Klipsch speakers. I think Allen was one the first guys to use Klipsch in theatres.

The Tivoli is a "dollar" show in Downers Grove, a Chicago suburb. This large old movie palace has 70mm projection available, HPS 4000 sound, bright projection, roomy seats and real butter. Best place I know to see a picture.

When Lawrence of Arabia was restored about, oh what, 15 years ago it was shown at the Tiv for a week. It looked and sounded so very, very good. I saw the picture 4 nights in a row. Most people today have never seen a proper 70mm spectacle, a shame.

[Thoriated_Tiger]

I'm still waiting for Klipsch and Co. to put out a 'modern' speaker with everything over 600 or so hz handled exclusively by horns.

The Reference and Synergies don't do it for me. Yeah, they're cleaner than conventional coners/domers, but still not as squeaky-clean as my Fortes.

Why?

Simple. The forte starts getting horny at 700hz. The effect is stunning -- complete, utter smoothness without sacrificing detail. Especially the lower midrange. This is exactly why I find the Reference and Synergies to be a little.. well, less-than-stellar.

PWK didnt use horns for efficiency, he did so for cleanliness.

Something the modern-day Klipsch seem to have forgotten. Why settle for merely "a little better" than the conventional speaker?

C'mon, Klipsch. Go back to your roots. Give us a 'modern' speaker which is horn-loaded to below 1khz. Anything less than that is short-changing us. Yeah, the current 2-ways are better than most speakers, but.. *sigh* is anyone getting the point? The magic is the midrange horn. The magic is in getting everything above 500~700hz done *with horns*.

I'm planning a massive HT upgrade within 5 years. If by that time there are no new Klipsch speakers with midrange horns, I'll just have to score me five or seven Fortes or Cornwalls.

[sfogg]

Tom,

Every few years John Allen does a demonstration of his HPS system for the Boston Audio Society in I think the main theater in the Framingham, Ma. Theater which is sort of his 'lab' theater I think.

I wasn't able to make it the last time he did it and am looking forward to when he decides to do it again. From what I've been told they are usually pretty impressive demonstrations.

Shawn

[Tom Adams]

Since I asked Tom Brennan about the home use of the KPT-325 and Dean weighed in with his thoughts about the use of Pro gear in a home application, I thought I'd share this.

I posted a question on this forum probably 3 years ago about surrounds. Trey Cannon shot back (pun intended) that a KPT-250 would match up very well with my Cornwalls and Heresys. My gut tells me that up to a certain point, Klipsch's small theater stuff pairs very well tonally with some of the Heritage stuff

Tom

[J.4knee]

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On 2/9/2005 10:36:29 AM Thoriated_Tiger wrote:

PWK didnt use horns for efficiency, he did so for cleanliness.

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I am only going to address one point here....

Is that not a derivative of the horns efficiency...move a sizable column of air with minimal movement of source element hence a cleaner sound.

[Thoriated_Tiger]

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On 2/9/2005 4:07:37 PM J.4knee wrote:

I am only going to address one point here....

Is that not a derivative of the horns efficiency...move a sizable column of air with minimal movement of source element hence a cleaner sound.

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Not.. quite. THere are a few cone speakers rated at 99db / 1w. For example, the Inifnity SM series. very very efficient, would go real loud on little power.

Dirty was too kind a word for these. Efficiency != cleanliness.

The reason the horn is cleaner is because it has a much shorter excursion vs. a comparable direct radiator. This is because the horn itself acts as a mechanical transformer. Make a tiny wiggle into a big wiggle mechanically.

A high efficiency direct radiator is still a direct radiator, subject to all of its drawbacks. The only advantage is, you can get loud dirt with little power expended

[dodger]

Wouldn't a better title for the Post be Why hasn't there been a new horn loaded under 1000, 700 hz released.

The Heritage line can't be supporting the company. Used speakers gain no profit for Klipsch.

So there must be something that they are doing right.

Yes, I own Heritage, but not everyone wants the heritage.

This is not an argument, just questions from my point of view.

dodger

[SCOOTERDOG]

I think klipsch understands this now. We are going to start to see the new reference premier line this year. Although not fully horn loaded it is a 3 way design utilizing both midrange and high frequency horns. It will be interesting listening to say the least. I wonder if all reference dealers will carry this line or is it going to certain specialty dealers, like heritage/THX dealers.

I do like the sound of the RF7's but not as much as the big heritage. I would be hard pressed to rid myself of my la scala's unless it was for khorns. I just love the very tight bass and the midrange is to die for. This is the area the RF7's just can't compete IMHO.

But I understand for a company to grow they need to be diversified. Perhaps with this new line coming out it will open the door for more heritage lines to be sold. But with out the marketing arm of klipsch pushing the heritage I think we will eventually see there demise

...sadly

[Tom Adams]

"Yes, I own Heritage, but not everyone wants the heritage."

Are we so sure about that? Or is it a function of "everyone" not being exposed to Heritage in the same manner as the newer product line?

I'd be willing to bet that if you asked a Synergy owner (assuming they're pleased with their purchase) if they were allowed to upgrade, what would they buy, their answer would predominately be something from the Reference series. Ask the same thing of an owner of any Reference series less than RF7 and the answer would likely be RF7. Now comes the interesting part. Ask the typical RF7 owner what they would like to move to in the Klipsch line and their answer probably would be, "Uhhhh....I thought I had the top of the line. Does Klipsch make something better/different than what I have?"

And to my simpleton way of thinking, this is where Klipsch is missing the mark. They have this other product line that's truly a wonderful product that is almost hidden by their own actions (or lack thereof). Would Heritage be a better sound for an RF7 owner? Who knows? But good lord, how about letting the consumer decide that by making the product as freely available for auditioning as the Reference series? And if the masses reject the Heritage line, then Klipsch LLC has their answer. But what if the consumers liked the Heritage line? Oh hell - that would be just terrible now wouldn't it?

Tom