ajcllc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 What is the recommended speaker wire make and gauge? Right now I am only running my Forte's on an old Vector Research in stereo. However, as I get all of my speakers for my home theater, I plan on running all of them on my Denon AVR-2802. What should I be using now...in stereo versus later on...in 6 channel surround? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Use 12-gauge all-around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I don't subscribe to big wire. If you want to, it is harmless unless it gets you into a situation where you can't get it connected to the terminals of the amp and the speaker. 14 gauge may be the limit for the connections. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 ---------------- On 3/18/2005 8:32:16 PM William F. Gil McDermott wrote: 14 gauge may be the limit for the connections. ---------------- But why go 14 when you can just go 12? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I think Gil says this for the same reason I have come to this conclusion with some of my stuff...I like to use the bare wire and it just doesn't want to fit the connections of some components...too thick... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Gil's recommendation of 14 awg wire should work well. The best size in wire should be determined based upon the distance of the wire run and the MINIMUM impedance of the speaker. My view is that the frequencies around the minimum impedance should not be attenuated by wire resistance much more than any other frequency. Bigger wire helps achieve that goal. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 My thoughts are as follow. Wire gauge doesn't create much of a problem. If there is no problem . . . I say there there is no reason to try to solve a problem which does not exist in the first place. But we're all hot rodders at heart. So if bigger wire makes you fell better, then do it. But in doing so, then we inject a real problem. The connections at the amp and the speaker can't take the big wire. So we have to find adaptors. E.g. big banana plugs or bigger spade lugs, etc. More things to go wrong. Can money be spent better elsewhere? I'll grant you that fat wire and connector can be done correctly, snug and clean. I do question whether there is any benefit over something like a good screw down connection with bright wire, of ordinary size, to the original terminals on our gear. Of course the size of connection for speakers is pretty much nonesense. If you open up a speaker box, the wire to the drivers, and within the drivers is very thin. Same is true of the connections in the final drive units (transistor or tube) in the amp. Gil Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Gil: I am curious, what gauge and type of wire would you recommend??? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 You're correct to put me on the spot. Writing it up I see I've got a left brain - right brain thing going on. I use to be more of a zelot. I'm using 16 gauge zip cord. I was hunting around HD and there was a spool of Carol brand. It works well with the screw terminals on my old JVC receiver and solders well to off the shelf spades and ring connectors. I do tin the ends if I'm not using a spade or ring, and mark polarity with black and red nail polish and check with an Ohm meter. Having to do it again, MAYBE I'd go for 14 gauge. But I've got most of the spool left. I had started using 12 gauge (whisper) Monster brand for the internal connections on a home-brew project. It created mechanical problems. It was difficult to solder in general. It didn't work well with normal barrier terminals. It didn't work well with push on connectors. It didn't work well with the terminals on woofers. I was concerned that its stiffness and bulk was getting in the way overall. Again, bigger wire can't hurt electrically though it doesn't solve a problem (like excessive loss) which doesn't exist in the first place. My favorite bromide. It seems kludgy to me to use such big wire in speaker runs that you have to buy bigger banana plugs and spades and maybe even convert the factory connects at the amp and speaker. Banana plugs don't make sense entirely. Now you've got the screw connection to the banana, and the banana connection. There are more non-soldered connections rather than fewer. OTOH: I will admit that the little old screw terminals with 16 gauge zip look insubstantial by modern standards. The spring type connectors look worse. There is the allure of gold and thicker copper. And yup, even the cheapo banana connections are very handy when moving things around. Contrary to my concerns, there has never been a connection problem that I can point to. As a compromise, 14 gauge zip is my Goldilocks (not too big, not too small) recommendation. Pick a color which matches your carpet. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Check out this link. http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Gil: I didn't mean to put you on the spot, I just respect you and wondered your opinion, aside the fact that I am also indebted to you ...I have a set of 16GA signet wire I got with my purchase of my 1st set of Klipsch speakers, KG2s in 1989...it still looks brand new and still works fine...I have been to Home Depot and even scored some Carol Brand 12GA wire but found it won't fit the spring terminals (bare wire) of my Nakamichi...it barely fits the knob terminals of my Outlaw and hates to fit the rear of my Klipsch speakers...I choose to bare wire fit the terminals and I think I may go back to Home Depot and either pick up the "plain jane" Carol in 14GA (my "compromise" as well... :-) or possibly the RCA Brand "pretty" oxygen free, double copper, pliable jacket wire that looks just like the Mon$ter Brand regular (whatever they call it) wire for a bit more than Carol but less than half of Mon$ter. Thanks for the insight and your opinion. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleJ Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I have used 14 gauge Carol wire from Home Depot for years and it has served me well no matter the speaker/amp terminal connections. (binding posts, terminal screws, or spring loaded). This is just my .02 worth. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 ...as Gil so rightly pointed out...we're all hotrodders here and anywhere we can tweak for real or perceived increased "horsepower" we're gonna take it...14/16GA is fine and silver/copper is fine...if you want to "dress it up" that's fine too and if your needs require anything different...well that too is fine...for me, I am going to look at the Carol 14GA and that RCA 14GA and pick some up. Just my .02 Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 After trying bare wire, spades and banana plugs, I have decided to use bananas. The type that I use easily accepts 12 ga. wire. When I moved up from 16 ga. wire to 12 ga. wire for my surrounds, there was a significant increase in output from my surround speakers. Part of the increase in output was due to the elimination of the verdi gris on the old wire. My surround speakers have a minimum impedance below 4 ohms with runs over 30 feet. The Roger Russel wire charts that everyone uses should be used with the minimum impedance of the speaker. Since only wire resistance is considered, I use one size larger wire to cover less than perfect connections, corrosion and to give me peace of mind. The cost to move from 14 ga. wire to 12 ga. wire for my surrounds was negligible. If it was not so easy to use 12 ga. wire with my gear, I would use 16 or 14 ga. wire and tin the ends as so many other folks do. The point to this post is that one size does NOT fit all. Everyone should use whatever works best for their setup. Avoid the use of expensive wire (Moster) unless the cost is of no concern. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 i use 16 G .. and bannana's .... that's just fine at the 300 RMS level, hey avg powers only a couple watts .. Crown has a chart Watts vs Impedance vs Distance on thier ste .. for the Anal people among us ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 ---------------- On 3/18/2005 11:08:35 PM William F. Gil McDermott wrote: If there is no problem . . . I say there there is no reason to try to solve a problem which does not exist in the first place. But we're all hot rodders at heart. But in doing so, then we inject a real problem. The connections at the amp and the speaker can't take the big wire. So we have to find adaptors. Can money be spent better elsewhere? Of course the size of connection for speakers is pretty much nonesense. If you open up a speaker box, the wire to the drivers, and within the drivers is very thin. Same is true of the connections in the final drive units (transistor or tube) in the amp. Gil ---------------- Gil, You are wise beyond your years. Excellent post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 belden has a great chart that actually shows the power loss over distance with the various size cables.... it's hard to find on their site so i have attached it here additionally- the size of the wire and your type of connection can easily be overcome with a pin-type connector.... the following pin connector from parts express will accept up to 8 gauge cable and will work with the small spring-clip connectors on the back of some speakers and amps http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-1255 if your speaker/amplifier accepts banana plugs, the following phoenix gold plugs work great http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=263-583 if your speaker/amplifier does not have the standard width spacing (common on many receivers) you can use the following single banana plugs http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=263-582 i personally use the phoenix gold plugs pictured above and they work great!!! 121.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 ---------------- i personally use the phoenix gold plugs pictured above and they work great!!! ---------------- I use Home Depot 14 or 12 ga (depending on application) in wall wire. This is dual wire that has a grey sleve around it. 12 ga is 39c/ft and 14 ga is much less if youj buy a spool. For interconnects, check out www.Solen.ca (the same folks who supply us with caps and inductors for our ALK's). They have taiwan made bannana plugs and the like for way less than you are paying at partsexpress. I was upset that the dual gold interconnect above was $3 ea. from Solen! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 ---------------- On 3/20/2005 11:29:15 AM tigerwoodKhorns wrote: I was upset that the dual gold interconnect above was $3 ea. from Solen! Chris ---------------- $3...$6.... i try not to get upset about costs of a few parts in this price range life is too short to get upset about a $3.00 part....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 I need sixteen decent binding posts to upgrade the junk posts on most my amplifiers, it does add up after awhile. Dayton binding posts seemed reasonable..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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