How do I tame the harshness of the RF-7's

[cjgeraci]

While I respect your decision to return the RF-7s (and sorry about your financial hit), I also think you just jumped the gun a little too quickly. Moving from a fair DVD player to a nice CD player caused a big overall change in the sound of my entire system. Sometimes the source does make a big difference or the resistor Dean referenced or his crossovers, etc.

Was thinking of this thread last night when I was doing work downstairs listening to Pink Floyd's "Division Bell" with just my RF-7s. Incredible-sounding at blaring volumes, a conversational level or a whisper.

Even with an outstanding-sounding front three of older Heritage (Belles and a Vertical Cornwall), sometimes I just have to turn the RF-7s on by themselves to remind me just how great they sound for the money (bang for the buck new speaker-wise).

Hope you find the sound you are looking for in a different set of speakers.

Carl.

[ben.]

This seems kind of strange to me. You guys probably wouldn't buy a "demo" set unless there was 30-40% off, but you piss and moan about a 15% restocking fee. Is the dealer expected to lie and sell them as brand new when they've been in a customer's home? True, some dealers offer exceptional audition policies, and they probably do more business because of it.

I don't know. I just whacked someone 20% yesterday to return some specialty ventilation that they forgot to tell their builder about (consequently, it's impossible to install). I didn't bat an eye and neither did they. We both realized who bore the responsibility for the costly error. At least I didn't stick them with $1200 worth of useless product. (It was factory special ordered, and I could have.)

[mbajner]

One should always ask what is involved with returns upfront so there are no surprizes

I deal with a small A/V shop and they like to limit returns within a two week period, no re-stocking fee.

I also dealt with Tweeter and they have a 30 day policy, also no re-stocking fee.

one just needs to know upfront, that is all.

also on the Yamaha receiver sound.

I really did not realize how harsh my Yamaha was until I got myself a seperate amp.

now things are a lot smoother.

hopefully soon, will get a separate pre/pro too.

[thirdeye]

mbajner, The anthem stuff does work great for Electronics we can Buy in 2005 Mated with Klipsh!! That MCA50 should be excellent and I am sure not to expensive.. and sorry to offend anyone here but the 7's are 2005 as well and, No not everything is like it was back in 1980 or anywhere near as cheap... so I think that the Answers of Throw a H/K 430 or tubes, whatever does turn some people off

and just as this guy did Give up and return the speakers...

But I think the 7's in general need that British or Darker sounding equipment up the chain to back them if you are standing in the middle of a modern Store buying in 2005, and ears are ears, so I will tell you that in the store the 7's sounded very excited with no substantial bass, hooked up to your basic HT 7.1 stuff and I still took them home Knowing there was more speaker than meets the eye and had to have some serious potential, especially when you can't get dual 10's and the Efficiency with Live sound today for 2000.00 in general unless you go the way of Klipsch... K-horns are great possibly my favorite, they had those set up at the store as well when I took the dive, but I was never going to drop 7,000 on them so beware you need to really do a little groundwork if you want Audiophile type sound with something as the floorstander RF7's. This was my experiance and others may find a different approch, but I went thru 2 2005 RECEIVERS, Denon 3805 and Onkyo(something), A forte Amplifier and several combos of preamps in 3 weeks to arrive at the Correct control and sound not piercing on some types of music, but it cost Money and I had to purchase an amps that cost the Same amount as the 1800.00 I spent on the speakers to be fully satisfied with the purchase in the end. I also found if you have a speaker with the potential of the 7's to keep them as a nice seperate solid 2 channel system and it just works better to get that performance for music vs. intergrating them into a costly 7.1 system.. I now have the 5.1 system seperated and the 7's for more serious listening. I love it much more and of course space and cost permitting not everyone has that ultimate 2 channel seperate of the HT these days, but well worth it if nothing else is working and you are serious about it.

And I can't believe that you do not get a 30 day return policy from any STORE.. No wonder these guys are struggling and people are now ordering per the internet.

MINUS of course a special order, I can understand that.

[KathyMason]

Rotel is also another good choice for the RF-7. My RF-7 sound wonderful and very stunning, not harsh or bright at all.

mbajner, shame you didn't get to hear the full potenial of the RF-7. It's a great speaker but all equipment has to be right for it, not just the amp. I have an inexpensive Sony CD player and when I run that on my equipment, boy oh boy does that change things, it's too bright and hard to listen to, but take it off and put back my Rotel CD and things are so smooth and wonderful sounding. It's not just the amp, it's every part that makes up the system, each part has to not add bad sound to it. Give the RF-7 what it needs and it's truly a great sounding speaker!!!! Forte's are great in it's own right and so are the RF-7's -- don't fool yourself too much there!

The Forte's are less forgiving, true, but once you get it right for the RF-7.... you are in for a real treat. Remember, demo rooms are some of the worst places to hear the RF-7's, they too often have something wrong some where, I've heard too many times RF-7 not sound right when something is wrong in the demo rooms, especially running them off of bright amps, pre-amps, or CD and only then can it get nasty. I know the RF-7's so when I hear them, I know right away if something is wrong in the system. When you have a speaker that is as revealing as the RF-7 are, every thing must be right in the system but it's a very small price to pay when you have that level of quality sound and detail that these speakers provide if things are right.

I'm amazed that some complain about the RF-7 being bright or harsh, it's not at all for me and it's very simple to know what quality equipment to pick for it to get outstanding results!

If you don't figure it out for yourself, it will be a shame that you will never hear the greatness of the RF-7 outstanding performance.

Nitefane, your're wrong - the RF-7's are great for music. You have something wrong in your system somewhere, too bad you couldn't get things right, your very much loss now. I feel for you guy. So sorry it didn't work for you, shame! You will never know what you have passed up now. I don't have DeanG crossovers and my RF-7's are very smooth on the top but my equipment makes it very smooth.

Anyone who charges re-stocking fees, I DO NOT DO BUSINESS with these stores and you shouldn't either. If you let them get a way with it, they will cheat you like that. Shop only at places that have a 30 day stock-free return policy. If you know this about the store and still do business with them, shame on you!

Well, sorry you didn't stick in there Nitefane to get things right with the RF-7's. I think you panic and re-acted too soon. Oh am I ever feeling your loss Nitefane!!!! I really feel for you. There was lots of people here willing to help you get things right, but doesn't look like you were willing. Shame, but good luck on your quest for another.

[KathyMason]

Oh me, Oh my...... I was just thinking how much I LOVE my RF-7 speakers! One of the best speakers Klipsch has put out and here I read such a tragic story of a fellow that just didn't have the understanding of this great speaker for an exceptional could-be system if he would have just stuck in there and put the right equipment with it. A real pity! So sad! Wow, I'm glad I'm not him.

[wheelman]

Should of stuck in there Nitefane. The rf-7's will last you a life time. The tv well 10 years if your real lucky, and be so obsolete. If I were you and they tried to pull that restocking fee on me I would see if I could get my speakers back, and add a rotel or something sweet sounding to them like Kathy suggested. If people say the rf-7 are brighter than the heretage line. Then you may want to check out the synergy line they are smoother than heretage line. Well I can only say that the sf-2's are smoother than the heresy II's. I will say Less forgiving before I get beaten with a hammer.

[Deang]

"Oh me, oh my"

I bet you wear ruby slippers.

[KathyMason]

--Well I can only say that the sf-2's are smoother than the heresy II's. I will say Less forgiving before I get beaten with a hammer.--

Wheelman, thanks for sharing that! I was curious how the Synergy line sounded. I haven't heard them. I saw them at BestBuy and tried to give a listen but their switch box was broken and wouldn't work to turn on the speakers. I was curious!

[KathyMason]

--I bet you wear ruby slippers.--

Master DeanG!!!

I would love to!!! Nice to hear you here again. In fact that is one of my favorite movies. When I was a little girl, I used to love to play like I was wearing ruby slippers.

Now you aren't going to get all my little girl secrets out of me now, are you???

[Parrot]

Kathy,

Have you had to move from your digs with the big room? That room (30 feet by 40 feet with 23 foot vaulted ceiling) sounds like it would be incredible for Klipschorns.

[cjgeraci]

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On 5/7/2005 5:54:27 PM KathyMason wrote:

Oh me, Oh my...... I was just thinking how much I LOVE my RF-7 speakers! One of the best speakers Klipsch has put out and here I read such a tragic story of a fellow that just didn't have the understanding of this great speaker for an exceptional could-be system if he would have just stuck in there and put the right equipment with it. A real pity! So sad! Wow, I'm glad I'm not him.

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Kathy, it is great to have another RF-7 owner in here who has put some decent equipment behind the speaker to hear its true potential. Over the last couple of years, there has been a fair amount of RF-7 bashing in here (or sometimes it does not get its just and fair due). I am the first person to admit that RF-7s can sound terrible with the wrong equipment behind them - Fish can relate the angst I went through when I originally purchased mine some time ago and they sounded like crap. But back then (seems like ages ago), I had substandard gear behind them.

Put nice gear behind them and the RF-7s are excellent speakers.

Carl.

[KathyMason]

Hi Parrot,

I would love a pair of Klipschorn's in that big room! I have not moved yet but still plan to, so I am nervous about the next room for my RF-7's! I hope my next place will still have them sounding so good!! I have to sell this place, I hate to but it's too much work to keep this place up with just myself, a great house but I won't get an old victorian house again, too much work with upkeep on such an old house and expense! My ex is supposed to help me get things ready to sell it this year. We had bought it together but now that things have changed, he needs to get his part out of the house too so we can move on. We are still great friends though. My next house will be much smaller and easier to care for!!!

Carl (cjgeraci),

I agree 100% with you. I have found so much bashing on the RF-7 in so many different forums that I get so tired of trying to explain to people what you can't use with Klipsch. Some people use some amps that are known right away not to go well with Klipsch at all and explain it to them and they feel it should go with any amp or equipment they want to use with not understanding at all. I even find a lot of bushing with any Klipsch product in some forums that I can tell that some doing it, never even heard them. Some even state that the RF-7's 3-way system's midrange horn is way too harsh and in your face! Goes to show you that those people never heard or saw it or they would know it's a 2-way design and does not have a midrange horn!

I think that the RF-7's are greatly underrated! Even here on the Klipsch forum many really underrated them and just don't realize just how nice of a speaker it really is, especially some of the Heritage guys here that don't even want to think about giving it a fair chance. It's when you start comparing the RF-7's to some of Klipsch past products do you realize just how well Klipsch did with this speaker! It's midrange sound quality is as if it did have a midrange horn that is very smooth and revealing. One of my biggest concerns was that it didn't have a midrange horn but that was quickly resolved after hearing the RF-7's, and later even more confirmed when hearing some of Klipsch past products with the midrange horn! Klipsch did very well with the midrange on the RF-7, very impressive, and I don't think some people give Klipsch the credit they deserve!!!!

We RF-7 users have to stick together!!!

[wheelman]

I would hardly say the rf-7 is an underdog here. Not at all. Try owning a pair of sf-2's from the synergy line. I do and love them. For their size they are great .jamming to my bro's heresy II's right now. I like them alot especially the midrange. It's going to be tough giving him his speakers.

[JTA]

I had an opportunity recently to hear the RF-7s on a full McIntosh setup which included the MC402 amp. I must say, that at their $2k price tag you would be hard pressed to find anything comparable new (they are out classed by most Heritage Klipsch speakers, which you can find used). After I listened to those, I auditioned a pair of B&W 802 Nautilus speakers on the same McIntosh setup. Simply amazing and only bettered by several Wilson/Krell setups I have heard in the past. Hearing the RF-7s by themselves they sounded great, but when comparing them to the B&Ws afterwards I realized, by comparison at least, the RF-7s were shrilly and hollow with muddy bass response. It took a speaker four times their price for me to realize this and I think that speaks well for Klipsch as they have built a great speaker for the money. Klipsch builds amazing mid-level speakers. Between my father and I, we have owned various Klipsch models since the 70s and still have all of them. Before you start spending the big bux, the Klipsch brand is hard to beat.

One other thing. Anyone running any of the higher level Klipsch series on any kind of Receiver is doing them a tremendous disservice. You really need to run them on seperates.

[imperfectcircle25]

Well you can't expect good sound from your RF-7's with a reciever. You need to get yourself at least a nice integrated amplifier if not some seperates. Also make sure you are using some decent cables, maybe a Analysis Plus Oval 12 speaker cables and interconnects. Personally I would go with tubes and theres a bunch of nice amps you can get within your budget especuially on the used market. Ive listed a few below, I listed the best in each catagory first but they are all very good amplifiers and will be far better than your reciever, it wont even be close.

Tube:

Manley labs Stingray (25w triode, 50w pentode el84 tubes)

Conrad johnson CAV50(smooth 50watt el34 tubes)

Rogue Audio Tempest (powerful 80w kt88 amp)

VTL IT-85(80 wpc el34 tubes)

Jolida 302b(50wpc el34 tubes)

Hybrid:

Unison Research Unico(80wpc 12au7 tubes)

Jolida 1501(100wpc 12ax7 tubes)

SS:

Sugden A21(25watts class A very warm and smooth sounding)

Sim Audio I-5(70 watts tube-like, punchy sound)

Exposure 2010s(75wpc classic British sound smooth,punchy)

Audio Analogue Puccini SE(50wpc smooth, tube sound)

Blue Circle CS(50wpc clear, waRm sound)

Rega Mira(60wpc Britsh sound warm mids, clean treble)

I would also make sure your cd player is not the problem. You should at least be using something in the $500 range. Cheap cd/dvd players will sound bright and harsh. If you buy used you should be able to get a nice integrated amp and a cd player for around $1500. I would reccomend a used Rega Planet, Ah! tJOEB, OR jOLIDA JD100. The RF-7's are very good and revealing and you need to drive them with decent compnents. I hate to see people with speakers that good using a reciver and DVD player and expecting good sound. With a $2500 speaker you want to spend at least $2500 on an integrated amp and source so that they will play up to thier potential. Check out Audiogon.com for good used equipment. And dont forget good cables too.

[imperfectcircle25]

I dont understand all the people who buy a really nice revealing speaker like the RF-7's and then hook them up to a reciver and DVD player and expect to get good sound on 2 channel music?? What are they thinking. Do yourselves a favor go get yourself a nice cd playe(Ah! Tjoeb 4000, Rega Planet, Arcam....ect) then get a nice integrated amp(Manley Stingray, Sim Audio I-5, Naim NAit 5i...ect) some good cables, hook it all up. The let it break in for a good 2 or 3 weeks, then you will get an idea of how good these speakers can sound. Personally I own the RF-3's with upgraded xover components, Ah! Tjoeb 4000/upsampled w/ NOS seimens 7308, Exposure XV integrated amp and Straight wire cables. The RF-3's dont sound to bright or harsh at all, they are actullay pretty smooth sounding with my setup. I am thinking of upgrading to the RF-7's soon!

[wheelman]

Isn't B&W like the Bose of England? I have a "HI FI" friend who says stay away from them. Of course he only recomends things that cost more than my home. I would love to read more reviews of B&W speakers from North & South Americans. I don't think I ever read a bad review about a British speaker from a British review. I think alot of their pride is there in their speakers, and pretty much all around bad economics for them to do so. I certainly do love the looks of that tiger eye nautilus finish.

[KathyMason]

JTA, sorry to disagree with you but, I was thinking about getting the B&W N803 and compared it side by side with the Klipsch RF-7. The B&W have a very sweet midrange but I felt it was lacking in the bass department and the RF-7 did better on the bass and resolution. The RF-7 just did every thing right for me and it was the dynamics and big live sound that I really liked with the RF-7's that won me over from not getting the B&W N803. The B&W is a nice speaker and I liked it and the quality but I liked the Klipsch RF-7 even better and even at a better price, can't beat that in any form in my book! I'm still very pleased with my decision. Well, I don't really disagree with you, I should say that our ears are different!

I did have a listen at the B&W N800 and N802 and loved the design and quality and wouldn't mind having it at all. Very nice but even it still didn't steer me away from the Klipsch RF-7 but we are talking about a much different price range here and those two models were very nice and didn't lack bass, but again much, much higher price than that of the Klipsch RF-7. Out of my budget too so, I'll take the RF-7 any day for the savings and the wonderful but wonderful sound it gives!!

[Spkrdctr]

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On 5/3/2005 4:10:05 PM DeanG wrote:

Guess who doesn't agree with just about everything in this thread? The speaker is tipped up, you can bring it down with a 25 cent resistor. No, it doesn't bring the level of refinement that a high quality amp, or full network upgrade brings -- but it does make it a speaker more suited for music as opposed to HT.

Take out the networks and tack a 10 ohm resistor in parallel with the 2 ohm resistor on the bottom board.

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I totally agree! I had mentioned this before. If it was needed it was a brute force method of really turning down that hot middle upper and high end. The speaker would have sounded great! I would have hit it with a resistor so that it really dropped back a lot. Oh well. Klipsch needs to be mindfull of not having these speakers so hot, people don't care for them. I consider the entire Klipsch line up for the last decade too harsh for me. BUT, when fixed, they are unbeatable by almost anything made. I may tear into my KSF 8.5s as they are too hot for me, but I use the loudness button to make the set up sound good.....(I know, I know... but it works). So, I may have to pull out the crossovers and see what I want to do.

I'd like to see Klipsch tone the high ends down some on new models so they are matched to the bass/midbass better.....