Spkrdctr Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On 5/12/2005 12:45:22 PM imperfectcircle25 wrote: Also some people have better hearing than others so some will here minor changes more than others. Im not saying the expensive cables will definitly sound better but for sure differant cables sound differant and that is why some will sound better than others to some people. I for one have heard differances in my system with differant cables, i dont understand why people have to argue about this. If I can hear the differance why must people argue that I dont, how can they possibly know what I hear?? there is no need to argue about it everyone hears differantly and thats all you have to say. ---------------- Imperfect, I'm not arguing with you. I'm informing you that you can spend your money on whatever you want. If the wires look cool, buy them! But, I do want you to understand that thousands, and I mean thousands of double blind tests have been done and no one, including the manufacturers of the high end wire themselves, has ever passed. It is so bad, that pretty much all of them will not allow themselves to be tested, even though they "claim" major, easily heard differences. In finding the limits of what would beat 14 ga wire, we could not find any speaker wire at any price that would beat it. For convienance sake, the usual recommendation is get 12 ga wire and your all set. Again, this does not say high end wire is bad. I'm just saying that no one has ever picked it out in a double blind study. This includes Goldenear audiophiles, trained ear listeners, regular folk and high end magazine writers. So, you can know the facts, and still buy what you want and enjoy. There is room for all of us in audio....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 imperfectcircle25, As to speaker wire, one caveat I can give is stay away from silver wire with Klipsch speakers. IMO it is too bright. The one speaker wire that has always intrigued me is the AudioQuest GBC.. There is probably something to their use of multi varying sized insulated wires in a bundle. Another salient point is they are not prohibively expensive. A 15 foot pair can be purchased for $100 from hcmaudio.com.. As I said, this technology intrigues me, I have not heard it. I personally use the afore mentioned RCA OFC 12ga wire from Home Depot. It fits my requirements. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On 5/12/2005 4:33:41 PM imperfectcircle25 wrote: My arguement is just that your compnents including your cables should match the rest of your system in quality. ---------------- I have really tried to find 30 to 40 year old 12awg cables, but they are so hard to locate! Do you have any good sources? Woo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 The entire methodology of the double blind test is suspect. After all, although we're talking about *audio* wire here, we're essentially covering the *eyes* of the tester and testee. No wonder that testees (as opposed to testes, a different subject) have always failed so miserably. Recently I conducted a double deaf test, with remarkably different results. The conditions were as follows: Tester and testees had 3M Disposable Foam Ear Plugs inserted into their ears, and then two layers of paraffin gauze were wrapped around their heads with the ends of the gauze neatly angled 45-degrees, to ensure that no auditory signals would skew the test results. Some eight different wires, ranging in retail price from 10 cents/foot to $20,000/meter, were shown by tester to testees, with testees allowed to visually inspect each wire, including brand name, for up to two minutes. The success rate of distinguishing bulk home improvement wire and audio salon cable was 95%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 Yo fellas, my g'pa died this spring and left all us kids some money in his last will and testesmoney. At the recamention of the dude at this awesome stereo store in town, I plopped down $1,500 on 2 spkr wires. I must say I am pretty impressed. I can hear the diff even on my cheep equipment. (JVC 5 disk changer, Sansui receever for $5 at a garage sale, which I had to fixe, homebult 3-way speakers from radeo shakk which cost $110 total) Also i have all of this crammed into a small dorm room, which dont provide for good speaker placemat. I played Eric Clapton Unplugged and compared the cheep wires i have to the new ones. The trebble is much clearerer. I heard things I hadn't noticed befor and I heard some stuff I wish I hant heard (thats another story). hehe--- Best moneys I ever spend. hey, where can i get some of those cool brass triangle thingys to stick my spkers on? Ive got about $700 left to spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />5/13/2005 9:07:45 AM jpm wrote: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Yo fellas, my g'pa died this spring and left all us kids some money in his last will and testesmoney..... Ive got about $700 left to spent. ---------------- Fantastic, great post Justin time. Now, which psychic hotline has the best fortune tellers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 10:55:13 AM Champagne taste beer budget wrote: I suggest doing a search on this forum for threads on this topic. There are plenty. Plenty of various opinions on the topic. ---------------- I think you should have followed my advice in the second reply in this thread. I knew where this was headed right away. Don't say I didn't tell ya so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 I donno about the 1000's of double blind test(btw these test are flawed in many ways), but the only test I need is the test I have done myself with the few cables I have. I can tell a definite differance bewtween them. I have tw type of speaker cables right now Exposure Black cable which is a 12ga copper cable that is spaced like Naim or Linn cables, and a Music and Sound Black cable which is made up of 3x22ga and 3x16ga silver coated copper per channel. The Exposure cable sounds warmer and a bit rolled of on top with very big bass, the Music and Sound cable definitly has a brighter sound with a cleared midrange and leaner bass. I have had my brother swap cables without me knowing and I could tell the differance. Its mainly the bass that I can tell the differance. I can also hear a differance between the three interconnects I have (straightwire Serenade, Encore and Stealth ETS), The Straightwire cables are warmer with more bass than the Stealth silver cable which is leaner sounding and more extended on top. But I can tell the differance , buut my DAD could not. Now I know I have much better hearing than him he is in his mid 5o's and his hearing isnt the greatest any more so I doono if this has alot to do with it. Maybe the people that cant hear the differance dont have perfect hearing?? For some reason it has been my experience that its usually older guys that cant hear the differance, I think they are just so set in thier ways that they dont wanna believe it makes a differance, and or that thier hearing just isnt as good as my 26 yesr old ears?? But I can hear a differance and thats realy all that counts. So if anyone wants to give me some useful advice on a good speaker cable than you if you are going to reccomend zip cord dont bother because I have tried all the cheap cables(zip cord, magnet wire....ect) and havent found one that sounded as good as my midpriced straightwire cables. Thanks frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 have considered the Audioquest wire since its on sale from HCM and is kinda cheap I only need 6 or 8ft and its quite affordable. I would have top see if it will work with my amplifier. Exposure amps like Naim and Linn are very sensitive to inductance since they dont use and zoble network on thier outputs. This has good and bad points, the good is better sound, the bad is sensitivity to cables. They dont like high inductance cables like Kimber 8tc will not work well with the amp but something with the + and _ seperated works fine. Do you know if the audioquest cable has seperate runs for the + and - of is it in the same cable? thanks frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 I dont mean in age I mean in quality, example dont spend $2 on wire to hook up your $10000 system. Your system should be balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 See I dont understand spending more on cables than your whole system is worth, that makes no sence. You need to balance everything. If you spend $1000 on your system zip cord will most likely be fine but if you have a nicer $5 or $10k system dont use zipcord you wont let your system reach its full potential. BTW why didnt you spend the $1500 on better speakers?? You woulda got alot more improvement tha the wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 a wire is a circuit, with resistance, inductance and capacitance... forget about that for a second, and tell me why we swap caps without even varying values, just materials? paper in oil, polypropilene, polystyrene, teflon? why do the same things with resistors? anyone guilty of swapping caps or resistors should be ashamed of pooh-poohing people who swap wires. One of my favortie audio giants Sid Smith always recommended replacing the wiring inside vintage marantz products since he had personally heard the difference using modern wires, he was not one to sign on to fads either...he rarely recommended exotic caps and resistors. to the rest of you (the non-swappers)...live long and prosper. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On 5/13/2005 11:13:10 AM imperfectcircle25 wrote: I dont mean in age I mean in quality, example dont spend $2 on wire to hook up your $10000 system. Your system should be balanced. ---------------- And all along I thought that a "balanced system" was characterized by the noise common to both the + and - conductors being cancelled from the amplification process because of the inability of a balanced stage to amplify what is common to both of it's inputs... its common mode rejection ratio (CMRR). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 hey imperfect, is it 420 time yet? bwahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 Why be an @ss? The guy comes in with an honest question. You are, of course, free to disagree with his basic assumption - namely that there is a diff. btw. speaker wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 he got his answer a long time ago. he wants to argue and beat it into the ground. it's fair game as far as i'm concerned. but hey, thanks for asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 I wasn't asking anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On 5/12/2005 12:45:22 PM imperfectcircle25 wrote: Also if there is no differance in cables why would klipsch spend the money on using Monster cable to wire its Referance series speakers. I seriously doubt a big company like Klipsch would waste money on wire that doesnt improve the sound. 1- They don't use Monster anymore. 2- When they did, it was probably juged to be a cost-effective marketing tool. 3- You should see what they wired my 1973 La scala's with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 11:00:03 PM imperfectcircle25 wrote: If you cant tell the sifferance in sound between cables you need to have your ears checked. Goto your nearest dealer and get a good quality cable on loan like Nordost, Kimber...ect Then listen to them compared to regular 12ga copper I garuntee youll hear the differance. Then again it really depends on your system. If your using a reciever and DVD player chances are you wil not hear much of an improvement, but if your stuff is decent regular 12ga is not showing your systems full potential. One other thing is that Im not saying the expensive cable will sound better, just differant, wheter that differance is better or worse is totally subjective to the preson listening. Everyone hears differance and has a differant idea of what is good and what is bad sound. That is why you cant really tell much about the way a component sound just by reading reviews and stuff like that. What sounds good to one may sound crappy to another. But generally most people will choose a nice $5000 system over a $100 boombox... ---------------- My problem with your post is not your opinion on wires, it's your attitude. If you cant tell the sifferance in sound between cables you need to have your ears checked. So you're got golden ears and I can't hear squat because I can't hear the sifferance? If your using a reciever and DVD player chances are you wil not hear much of an improvement, but if your stuff is decent... Now my gear is not even decent... That's the reason! But generally most people will choose a nice $5000 system over a $100 boombox... You're implying that the difference between premium wire and regular 12 AWG is equivalent to a nice $5000 system over a $100 boombox... that's unrealistic, to say the least. If the forum had kill files, I might use it now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 ---------------- On 5/13/2005 1:58:14 PM kev313 wrote: I wasn't asking anything. ---------------- I thought so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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