dodger Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Greetings: After 38 years of Pro Sound equipment, I do agree with Griff regarding the quality of Behringer parts, R & D, etc. It is somewhat a case of you get what you pay for. That said, I do remember the BIC TT's of the 1970's. Very nice performers, quiet, reliable, but some people shunned them as they "did not cost enough." I still have a 960 and a 980 that give me no problems. The Behringer canbe bat, but the price one can buy them for makes a good cost vs benefit model. I would personally go Ashly, as they are made in my County and an irreplacable friend works there. The quality in all forms is great. Pro vs Home Audio - the Pro sometimes is put on an altar, simply because of the "Pro" association. But as Tony stated there are points to start then to upgrade..In those upgrades you have to again examine price vs sonic quality. With some the Components owned mate very well. So again I offer my approach of who is paying for the Equipment, tempered by agreement with Griff. Even with Behringer, some of the assemblers take pride to put the best possible product out that they can. Sometimes that makes the difference in what is heard. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 One forum member here put his SPL in his second system after getting a DEQ 2496. When I was talking to the owner of a shop that sells SPL equipment, he mentioned to me, without me asking, that "Behringer has an eq, the 2496, that is selling really well. I had my doubts, but I have some serious guys buying them and they are happy." Maybe if I heard some better eq's, I would agree. But, here is the thing, I added this EQ as a $250 "why not" purchase and it doesn't seem to degrade the signal. I think that is the point, I can eq my source without an audible degradation in sound (to me, at least). Now, I am interested in the DAC because I want to build a computer to play a catalog of MP3's that I have and a sattelite radio in teh future. The original source is not great, so a low cost DAC that I have already heard (in my DAC 2496) is right in line. If I really wanted to, I could use teh DAC in the DEQ2496, but for $125 I woudl rather just add another DAC. I could buy a Benchmark, but I am sure that the MP3's would sound lousy with it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 12:55:14 AM Griffinator wrote: ---------------- On 7/1/2005 7:30:51 PM tigerwoodKhorns wrote: ...I could have spent a fortune and not made this big an improvement. Chris ---------------- Maybe, but you'll never know how big an improvement a well-built version with quality parts would have made. Behringer is still the KLH of pro gear, and always will be until they demonstrate a commitment to quality control and R&D (their own, not other peoples') Something you guys don't seem to understand around here is that pro-level equipment is really not that much different than hifi. You wouldn't even dream of putting an Audiosource EQ in your system, yet you'll happily put the absolute cheapest of cheap digital EQ and DAC's from the "pro" realm into your chain, thinking that this is the shiznit, but not realizing that there's a very good reason why there are so many far more expensive versions of the same product in that realm. Why set your sights so low? Because that's all you guys ever hear about from each other. Behringer this, Behringer that, while people who work with this stuff for a living all laugh at Behringer because it, relatively speaking, sounds like dog poop when compared to any real professional equipment... ---------------- I swear, after all this time that I've been gone, you still haven't changed. Folks, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Behringer products at all, and they definitely are not the "KLH of pro gear". Why don't try telling these people http://www.behringer.com/04_ultranet/poweruser.cfm?lang=ENG that Behringer is junk and see what they have to say. Not to mention that I have read in several different CD cases that Telarc uses Behringer products. Are you going to argue that one of the greatest recording companies out there are idiots for using "junk"?! Please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Personally , i would spend the extra $200 for the Rane unit ... it would be money Well Spent ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 2:35:57 PM chops wrote: ---------------- On 7/5/2005 12:55:14 AM Griffinator wrote: ---------------- On 7/1/2005 7:30:51 PM tigerwoodKhorns wrote: ...I could have spent a fortune and not made this big an improvement. Chris ---------------- Folks, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Behringer products at all, and they definitely are not the "KLH of pro gear". Please.... ---------------- well, i'm not trying to piss you off, Chops ... but you are So,Soooo Wrong ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Yeah, whatever. Not to piss you off either, but from the looks of your system profile there, it looks like you're going for that wonderful PA sound. I don't think a Rane could even help your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Okay, let's eliminate personal attacks. Components are the issue, not who's paid more, who has Pro that's not great and so on. Both have stated what you would do - your money, your right. I respect your opinions. BUT, let's just state our own opinion and not attack. As I stated in a paraphrased way, some brands are not for everyone, some Companies have employees that go the extra bit to put out the best that they can. Only the buyer can decide to put out more or be happy with what they have, meaning to their hearing curve, ability to have extremely sensitive hearing and Components that do what is good for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 i guess none of these posters have seen the Behringer stuff at work, ya know .. in a rack, with the cheap plastic shaft pot's all broke off .. the plastic input jacks with tape holding the cables in that stuff is made for Garage Bands ... 18 y/o kids buy that crap ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 2:55:23 PM chops wrote: Not to piss you off either, but from the looks of your system profile there, it looks like you're going for that wonderful PA sound. I don't think a Rane could even help your system. ---------------- not that i don't like to argue, but that doesn't even merit a reply .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 From my indeed limited experience I would certainly not endorse all Behringer products. As stated in another thread, their Ultrafex (sp) 1954 I found rather disappointing and toylike. It was neither very effective, nor particularly well built. Result: no purchase. When I got the Behringer EQ I was in a position not that dissimilar to Dean's - I didn't expect much and was pleasantly surprised how much a (positive) difference it makes in my main system. Would a different product perform better? Well, that might indeed be the case, but I simply don't feel the need to spend extra money. Perhaps this unit is a kind of sleeper amongst Behringer products, who knows? For what it is worth: When it comes to electronic crossovers I have a fried who started out with a Behringer, moved up to a dbx unit and finally got himself a BSS (I believe). I trust his ears and he clearly put them in that order: BSS 'best'....next dbx....and finally Behringer....BUT he also added that the differences were not huge and that for the money the Behringer was hard to beat. Had it not been for curiosity's sake he might still be using the Behringer.... Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 2:35:57 PM chops wrote: Why don't try telling these people http://www.behringer.com/04_ultranet/poweruser.cfm?lang=ENG that Behringer is junk and see what they have to say. Not to mention that I have read in several different CD cases that Telarc uses Behringer products. Are you going to argue that one of the greatest recording companies out there are idiots for using "junk"?! Please.... ---------------- Logical fallacies 101: Appeal to Popularity Furthermore, the only significant names on that list are the keyboardist from Deep Purple and SAE recording school - both of which, based on the press releases that page links to, are getting free mixers from Behringer. Big deal. Every other picture you link to is a second-tier hack of one sort or another, and are no doubt being fully sponsored by Behringer - free gear in exchange for your picture on our website. What unsigned band wouldn't take an endorsement contract for free gear? Why don't you ask the real giants in the industry what they use, and get back to me. People like George Massenburg, Dave Frangioni, Lee DeCarlo, Bruce Swedien, et al... Ask them what's in their studios, you know, the ones that they bought and paid for themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 "why dont you ask the real giants in the industry" I would rather ask someone here that has used one......then based on my first hand experience I could voice my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 On 7/5/2005 10:51:43 AM Griffinator wrote: I've heard too many Behringer compressors, DSP units, mixers, amplifiers, speaker systems, etc in action vs their counterparts to even consider employing their garbage in my system. --------------------------------------- So I'm curious Griff have you used the Behringer DEQ 2496? I think its important to stay on one point here! Does the Behringer DEQ 2496 Performance Merit what people here have been reporting about using it. My Vote is YES! I even believe its worth its money just for what you can measure and learn by using the RTA alone! Now as far as build quality and other issues you have brought up I can only say that I feel like its a real bargain. Would I choose one of the other brands you mention maybe but only if they proved that they actually could out perform the Behringer to justify their higher cost. To buy from price or name alone just seems foolish to me. If we use your analogy How Many People Wouldn't Use A Klipschorn Because its "OUTDATED" or "DIDN"T COST ENOUGH" for audiophile respect. It just remindes me of people who have talked down Klipschorns but when asked have never heard one or heard it in a good enviroment/setup. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I have to admit that from a pro point of view, I can see why the build would be constituted as "junk". It certainly wouldn't hold up long being hauled around. However, since I'm not going to be loading and unloading it every night, and bouncing it off the event floor - I don't expect the knobs to break off any time soon. I don't see what the big deal is. It's a $300 unit that makes my system sound better. Maybe not as much "better" as a $1500 unit -- but still better. Mike is right too, the RTA and SPL meter alone are worth the cost of entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 my only point, Dean .. is that if ya spend a little more ..$150-$200 ya get a LOT better that's all ..i have used one .. it worked.. in the same rack was an Ashly , it had Tons more dynamic range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Well, he's got to have some excuse to get rid of it in 90 days! I like ART for low-end stuff. It's pretty much all Chinese-made, but the company is right next door in Rochester. And yes, at least half the Behringer gear I see in racks has at least one knob broken off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 5:12:40 PM DeanG wrote: I have to admit that from a pro point of view, I can see why the build would be constituted as "junk". It certainly wouldn't hold up long being hauled around. However, since I'm not going to be loading and unloading it every night, and bouncing it off the event floor - I don't expect the knobs to break off any time soon. I don't see what the big deal is. It's a $300 unit that makes my system sound better. Maybe not as "better" as a $1500 unit -- but still better. Mike is right too, the RTA and SPL meter alone are worth the cost of entry. ---------------- I agree! If it makes an improvement, then that's all that matters. BTW, my Ultra Curve DSP8000 doesn't have knob one! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 5:02:39 PM mikebse2a3 wrote: If we use your analogy How Many People Wouldn't Use A Klipschorn Because its "OUTDATED" or "DIDN"T COST ENOUGH" for audiophile respect. mike ---------------- Sorry, Mike, but your analogy doesn't hold water. Behringer doesn't make "mid-fi" equipment. They make bargain-basement equipment. Whether they're being caught reverse engineering and copying other peoples' products (Aphex Aural Exciter, Mackie VLZ-Pro mixers, Ebtech Swizz Army Tester, Boss' complete line of stomp boxes, the list goes on and on...) or just releasing pure junk versions of whatever is hot at the time (Behringer V-Amp, a worthless POD knock-off) Behringer makes their living off the cheapest parts and the cheapest manufacturing contracts they can muster. Now, to correct your analogy... How would you all view, for example, Jensen releasing a $500 knockoff of the Klipschorn. Would you rush out and buy them, figuring the design is a good one and, though the parts are cheap, the sound is definitely better than anything else you can get for $500? Hell no you wouldn't. You'd be going ape$h!t over the fact that these turkeys had the gall to release a cheap, trash-built version of a really great speaker. That's what Behringer does every single day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Griff I don't think my analogy needs correcting! My point is alot of people want respect something unless it cost a certain $$$$ or has a certain brand name and I believe thats being short sited and closed minded or even a bit insecure to trust their own opinions. The Behringer has proven to be a very good product to alot of people who have taken the time to learn how to use it. To tell these people that they don't know what they are hearing is just wrong. Its been obvious in previous threds on the Behringer that you dislike this company and thats your right but I think when you attack someone or something that you know exactly what your talking about. So Griff "please answer" the real question I asked which is have you actually used and spent time with the Behringer DEQ2496 that you seem so determined to run down? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 So what EQ do you reccomend in the $450 range? (The Behringer is $250). What improvements can be expected? As far as DAC's, what do you reccomend to coompete with the SAC 2496? (it is $125 - want to use it with MP3's and sattelite radio). Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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