September 11th, 2001

[Al Klappenberger]

You had a grievance?

Grievances between people having different agenda are a fact of

life. So are Grievances between nations. This is why the fine art of

diplomacy has evolved. Civilized people throughout history have used this

means to resolve major differences in a civilized way. Quite often one

entity or the other has not been willing to accept the compromises that

result. When this happens, the result can be war. Once a war begins,

diplomacy stops and the entity who starts the war must accept that he may

lose. At that point the chance to resolve your grievances in a manner

acceptable to everyone is over. To Mr. Bin Laden and the mindless peons who

follow you around the world, you have declared war not only on the United

States by an unspeakable and cowardly acts against innocent people, but you

have taken on the entire civilized world. Understand that your chance is

over. You will lose this war, and your grievances will never be satisfied!

Everyone and everything you represent, the good as well as the bad, is

destroyed. Everyone loses.

Al Klappenberger

[Colin]

Sinclair, Gordon (1900-1984)

The "biggest name" in Canadian broadcast journalism is "Gordon Sinclair".

Gordon Sinclair's greatest achievement was his CFRB LET'S BE PERSONAL broadcast of June 5, 1973 - a broadcast which echoed around the world and which history will record as one of the most respected tributes from Canada to the people of the United States of America.

Here is what I want I think:

Our nation is suddenly faced with our greatest challenge. An organized and covert attack on our soil against our national security and homeland defenses.

But before we take the steps which must be taken, we must all first contribute and give what we can to the aid and comfort of the victims and their families of these horrific crimes. Now is the time for all of us to contribute what ever we can, however small or however little we can, to care for the wounded and the victims of this, our national catastrophe.

Then we must come together as one nation and one world to solemnly mourn our dead and bury them on a special day in an international ceremony with quiet resolve.

Next, the industrialized democracies of the world will investigate those who committed these horrible crimes to find out exactly how they planned and carried out these monumental attacks on humanity.

Finally, we will swiftly hunt down and bring to vengeful justice all those who are directly and indirectly involved or complicit in these barbaric acts regardless of international boundaries and diplomatic support.

To do this we must make several decisions:

1. Are we willing to give President Bush the increase, and possibly more, that he is asking for in the defense budget?

2. Are we willing to consume what is left, if any, of the national surplus to do so?

3. If Clinton's missile attacks could not eliminate the terrorists from mountainous terrain like Afghanistan, then are we willing to escalate this appalling conflict to the limited but illegal use of chemical weapons, despite the possible scorn of the world?

4. In fact, are we willing to escalate our retaliation to the limited, but illegal, use of short range nuclear weapons to contaminate the target areas for decades, despite the possible scorn of the world?

5. If these options are more unthinkable than the blasts we have been hit with, then we willing to send more planes, ships and troops (697,000) than served in the Gulf War, to tediously hunt down these abominations to morality?

6. Finally, are we, as a country, prepared to spend more lives of young men and women than the 9,000 that died in the Gulf War to avenge this assault? Are we willing to take the risk of infecting even more than 100,000 soldiers that suffered from chemical warfare in the Gulf?

We need to make these decisions if we are to decide how to proceed. These are the decisions our leaders grapple with now, these are the ones we must let them know that we have made. We should let them know the extent of our resolve. We should let them know the depth of our cold fury.

I, for one, would like to know your personal answers.

------------------

horns, tubes, subs, leather couch & female vocalists

This message has been edited by Colin on 09-15-2001 at 09:43 AM

[jdm56]

First, to JJT:

Glad you're OK. I have a new respect for New Yorkers. Their reaction to this horrible act has been nothing short of inspiring. You're proud to be a New Yorker? I'm proud of all of you, and proud of NYC for all the American ideals it has stood for over the course of this country's history.

An image seen on television remains in my mind -- With the smoldering rubble of the WTC in the background, that proud beacon of liberty was still standing, as if lighting the way out of the smokey darkness of this tragedy. And showing to the world, "We are still here. Still standing. And standing for the same values and ideals that have helped define this nation for 225 years."

Is there a lesson in this terrible event? I believe it is a wake-up call. Not just to viligence in national security, but to return to God. For surely God has held his protecting hand over this country in past times, but just as surely, this nation has turned away from God to the point we must ask ourselves, "Are we truly a God-fearing nation?" If we fear God, we must obey Him, for the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

To any who I may offend by what may be perceived as preaching, I apologize. But I am just honestly expressing my feelings. And the freedom to do so is part of what is great about being an American.

------------------

JDMcCall

[Marvel]

I have started to write something all week, but haven't been able to get down in a short space all that is on my mind. How could I? It has been interesting where I work, a small Presbyterian college. I'm the only Catholic there, and I often find myself in sharp disagreement over matters of religion. If Christians can argue and disagree, what can we then make of all the world's religions? We can all be wrong, but we can't all be right. But right now, being right or wrong about our faith is not the issue. This nation is full of people of all faiths, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu,... There are athiests, moralists, deists, ... And all of the varieties in each of those. We are human beings, created in God's image, trying to interact with the world around us, and right now, we are all hurting.

Has the U.S. had the best foreign policy or always acted with the best intentions in the world? I think we would be wrong to say we are without sin (moral, ecological, business, political, whatever). But I for one, wouldn't want to live or be from anywhere else.

So now we declare war on terrorism. That is about as vague a target as the war on poverty, and it didn't work. I am praying that our leaders will have wisdom, that our fellow citizens will have wisdom ... and compassion, mercy and forgiveness. I have a 30 mile drive to and from work. Not a day has passed that I have not wept as I have made that drive. Should something be done? Yes, but I pray it is the right, whatever it is.

Marvel

[eq_shadimar]

I know I posted earlier but I found this and I thought that it sums up my thoughts.

Colin - Yes to all of your questions except using chemical and nukes. Heck he can even have his $300 back.

**************************

We'll go forward from this moment

It's my job to have something to say.

They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.

You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard.

What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed.

Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.

Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.

IN PAIN

Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.

But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.

I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future.

In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined.

THE STEEL IN US

You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold.

As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.

So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started.

But you're about to learn.

Miami Herald - 09/13/01

------------------

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[dougdrake2]

eq_ - Thank you.

Doug

[Mr. Blorry]

I agree with Mr. Drake. Nicely said.

[montigue]

Nicely said Eq...

I am not a highly educated person. I cannot even come close to writing a post like Eq. Although I feel I need to say a few word's.

For those of you who are unsure about the United States counter strking terrorism please keep this in mind..

Life on this planet is a struggle..You have to fight for what you beleive in (Freedom being the case here)

As long as we live on this planet there will be no peace...peace will only come in the after life.

We must do all we can to stop those who try to control people with radical belief's..Think of these terorist's being in the same thought process as Hitler.

Finally... We must all come to grip's with the fact that people must die for the good of the people.

Monty AKA Montigue..."WHERE KG SERIES LIVE"

[Mighty Favog]

There are two things I would like to add:

A religious person will kill those unless they believe in the same "God" he does.

A spiritual person will accept the fact that you believe in a different and peacefull "God".

--unknown

With regards to Bin Laden, the following;

"I object to you. Power without discipline, intellect without contructive purpose."

--Spock

This message has been edited by tblasing on 09-24-2001 at 12:33 PM

[Chris Robinson]

As usual, I'm late to this thread but I learned a lot from reading through it. The most obvious thing I learned is that the group of people who frequent this forum, myself humbly excluded by principal, are intelligent, thoughtful, soulful and caring, and I find it no accident that traits such as these go hand in hand with those who strive to find perfection in music and its reproduction. After all, the essence of music is its ability to inspire human passion, and the connection itself for most of us is Klipsch.

It's an honor to be a contributor and collaborator with all of this board's passionate souls.

God bless our great nation, its people and all we stand for.

------------------

Klipsch 1968 ALK Cornwall "II"s (LF/RF)

ALK Belle Klipsch (Center)

Klipsch Heresy (RR/LR)

Klipsch KSW-12 sub

Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Cornwalls)

Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Heresy's)

Denon AVR-4800

Toshiba SD-3109 DVD

[Mike Lindsey]

Well said, Chris! And I have to agree with you. I used to spend a little time on some of the other A/V forums but this one just outclasses them all...and it's not even close! I don't even bother with the others anymore...

Mike

[decibel man]

"I am proud to be an American"

I am proud to see the above posts, although I have read most of the published articles above, it was still great to see them in circulation. It makes me proud that we still want to share these great words of wisdom and purpose. I believe Americans had to take a knee when the cowardly criminals decided to attack innocent people on our soil. Now I feel as if the Nation has been reborn and we all have hit the ground running. Yesterday the NFL resumed, and my fellow Clevelanders and I set a new attendace record at the Cleveland Browns Stadium. All of the games since the Browns' return have been sold out, this game just had the most attendence. It is a small statement, but a statement none the less. All of those attending knew that it was going to be a match of two mediocre teams that could care less about each other, but we came and waved our flags. The Browns organization somehow managed to round up 75,000 Tyvek flags as hand outs and fans' jerserys were replaced by shirts with flags on them and phrases like "these colors won't bleed!". God bless America and especially those men and women of the military who are about to encounter a cowardly enemy that has wrongfully and unknowingly awakened a fierce and mighty giant!

"I am proud to be an American"

JT

[Chris Robinson]

JT, hear, hear!! We New Englanders echo your sentiments!

[Marvel]

My wife and I went to the opener of the Chattanooga Symphony & Opera this past Friday. The were doing a mostly Beethoven concert. Little did I know that they always open the season with the Star Spangled Banner. The theatre was packed, with probably fewer than twenty seats open. I couldn't sing I was so overwhelmed with emotion. They followed with America the Beautiful. I was devastated.

Marvel

BTW, while coming back from Atlanta on Sunday, a car passed us, full of folks who appeared to be from the Middle East. The passenger on the right side of the car was holding a small American flag out the window. They are in my prayers, as they looked scared.

[gjp60]

I just read this thread and would like to respond to Colin with my personal answer.

I work in midtown Manhattan, not downtown where the twin towers were located. But I watched the tragedy unfold from my window. For the last two weeks I've been glued to the tv news channels like everyone else, and have seen the pictures of the devastation, along with the ongoing rescue operation.

Yesterday, during lunch, I took the subway downtown to have a look around, I worked down there for thirteen years so I had a mental picture of the area before the attack. There is no way the pictures on tv can convey the utter destruction that took place. The only way I can describe it is to think of London during the blitz, or Berlin at the end of the war. There are not that many people left that can conjure up those images from memory, but I'm sure they'd agree with the analogy. It is a war zone. There are hundreds of police and soldiers, some carrying sub-machine guns, streets blocked off, debris lying around, buildings and stores closed up. There are people walking around with dust masks, because that's the first thing you notice. As soon as I got off the subway you can taste and feel the dust, this is 16 days later. I walked to a spot where you can get a glimpse, down a side street, of the Trade Center. It's at that point you realize that your just staring, trying to comprehend the sheer magnitude of the destruction. And then your staring again, thinking about the loss of life, and wondering what's going through the minds of the families of the dead and missing, and thanking God that all your loved ones are safe, and praying for the families of friends and acquaintances that are gone. And as you look around, there are other people, like me, just staring , trying to comprehend what happened. I did not feel this way looking at the same scenes on tv.

It is for this reason I believe, that the President is having so many of our law-makers and foreign leaders personally inspect the site. Once you see it, there is no other thought in your mind than to do whatever it takes,to bring whoever is responsible for this to justice; what ever it takes.

I'm writing this response, after driving two hours to get home from a wake in Staten Island,for a fireman killed saving some of the 25,000 who managed to escape. He is a hero to me, but to someone else he was a husband, a father, a brother, and a son. There was no casket, just pictures. Just pictures so the family can have some semblance of closure. His body, like those of the other 6,000 innocent people, is buried under the rubble. So there will be 6,000 other wakes and funerals with just pictures. Just pictures so those 6,000 families can have some semblance of closure. There was also the firm resolve,of the few surviving members of the firehouse, and the resolve of the family and friends, to do what ever it takes.

I grew up on Long Island, and ever since I can remember, I've always been fascinated by the Twin Towers and the Empire State Building. And over the years, day in/day out, you just take them for granted, they're just always there, used mostly as landmarks when driving, every now and then you bring your kids to the observation decks, and so on. And unless you've

lived near them as I have for 41 years, then they're just buildings,right? And I can understand that, because I didn't feel the way I do now when the Oklahoma City bombing happened, and I'm sure it was the same way for the people of Washington, as well as elsewhere around the nation. But now I know how they felt. As I'm sure the people of Washington do. And when those two buildings collapsed, killing those 6,000 people, a part of me died inside also. It's understandable that if you don't live near New York, or Washington, or Oklahoma, that it's possible that your not as emotionally affected as someone who does. I remember walking accross town to Grand Central Station that day at 11:30am after they closed my building. There were almost no vehicles on 7th Ave, 6th Ave, 5th Ave, and Madison Ave at 11:30 on a weekday. That's unheard of. What I saw instead, and what really spooked me were the hundreds, if not thousands of people walking up these streets from lower Manhattan. Just walking uptown because everything was shut down, and all they wanted to do was get home. No cars on 5th Ave. just people. I remember how quiet the jam packed train to Connecticut was, and how lucky I was that I was on that train. And I remember how my wife embraced me when I walked through the front door. I remember that the officials at the school my 4th grader goes to didn't announce the terrorist attack, because some of the kids had parents that worked in the Twin Towers, and didn't want to panick them. And I remember how difficult it was to sleep that night.

And now, as I travel everyday to work, and for the rest of my life for that matter, as I look at the Manhattan skyline, at the empty space once occupied by buildings that I took for granted, I will forever be reminded of that horrific day of tragedy and death, and for that I am resolved, to do whatever it takes.

[Big Ben]

Being a Brit that lives in Canada now, I must say that the USA has without question helped other countries at their time of need.

The world would be a very different place if Hilter had won the second World War.

He didn't because of what the United States of America did.

Now is the time for all democratic countries to support the US in their hour of need.

"GOD BLESS AMERICA"

[boomer9911]

My condolences to our southern neighbours. I now hope we as Canada "wake up" and change as a "passive" country to a more "assertive" country. We allow 150K immigrants in per year and the Federal Government wants to up that to 380K. I think it's time to think over "rule" books and we better start looking at this more as the continent of North America and all of our sovergnity.

Sorry Canada...but we are a gateway to this(16 people in a 3 bedroom dwelling unit and their all related right?????), regardless of what the PM and the Liberal Government states.

PS. Besides, I'm tired of hearing "how" these people got into North America!

This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 09-30-2001 at 12:51 AM

[John Warren]

boomer-don't feel bad, we've got 1.3M "vistors" with expired visas still in this country. US is obsessed with entitlement programs, doesn't give squat about real governing.

[dougdrake2]

My concern is that we Americans will not have the stomach for the kind of battle this is going to be, nor the patience to run the course. We are a society of quick fixes, sound bites, and MTV-like news. This will not be over soon. Our tendency is to stick our heads in the sand and pretend bad stuff isn't happening (look how many people are "suprised" when they get laid off, when the writing is all over the walls?).

Steel yourselves, fellow Americans, to do what is right in the name of justice, as long as necessary, to preserve not only this nation, but quite possibly the entire world!

"O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand

Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;

Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!

Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,

And this be our motto: In God is our trust!

And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

(The last verse of "The Star Spangled Banner," by Francis Scott Key.)

DD2

This message has been edited by dougdrake2 on 10-01-2001 at 11:15 AM

[boomer9911]

attached is an interesting read......

An open letter to this website

This is not really a question but it is, in a way on all Americans. I go to college and today we discussed

what's been going on for last week. My teacher handed out some papers that she thought were important

in her point of view. She gave us a paper that someone from Afghanistan wrote. it is as follows:

Re:Afghanistan

From and Afghan-American Sociologist, Tamim Ansary

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ron Owens spoke on

KGO Talk Radio today and said that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to

do with this atrocity. "We're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes

later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." I thought

about the issue being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived

here (USA) for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on in Afghanistan. So I want to tell anyone

who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.

I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But Taliban and Ben Laden are not

Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps in WWII. "Not only did the Afghan people have nothing to do with

this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in

there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some

say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted,

hurt, incapacitated, suffering.

A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan, a

country with no economy, no food. There are widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land

mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. There are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people

have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban - by rapping once again the people they've been rapping all this time. So what else is there? What can be done? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only

way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do

what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the

belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand.

What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting

their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that. Because to get any

troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're

flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what? That's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the

world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that could mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone

else?

Tamim Ansary

This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 10-03-2001 at 11:22 PM