Cornwall III

[colterphoto1]

I emailed Trey to send this thread to Roy. Our responses to the listening tests might mean something to him. I don't know how many non-Klipsch employees have had the opportunity we were given. I'd be interested in Roy's reaction to our responses.

I'm thinking we are going to get some Pro Jubilees as well as new Heritage sold here. Those babies didn't sound like a folded horn at all. The difference between a single 15 ala Khorn and those two 12" in the Jube was astounding. There was a Cornwall - like PUNCH and SLAM, plus the uber smooth low end.

It just sounded invisible and thunderous at the same time. The speaker cabinet went away and it was just an enormous WALL OF SOUND steaming out of those babies.

I'm not being overly dramatic when I say that when Roy cranked the volume on Hotel California through the Jubilees, I got a lump in my throat and tears in my eyes. I could not believe that reproduced sound could have that type of impact. It was the finest listening experience I have ever had!

I remember saying to myself 'God, I can't believe that anything can sound THIS GOOD!'

Michael

[colterphoto1]

There's quite a few of the Heritage Gathering members who havent' posted their responses to the listening tests. I'd be interested to hear what you all thought of what Roy presented to us.

Michael

[TBrennan]

Dave---Thats a JBL 2420 driver on an Edgar 550 hz saladbowl. The Edgars had a 2" throat so I used a JBL 1" to 2" adaptor. The adaptor was conical and so I don't think it hurt the "tractixness" (tracsisity?) of the Edgars as the advantage of the tractrix is the launch from the mouth.

[Seadog]

Tom,

Does the "Saladbowl" and that driver cover the range from 550 Hz on up to around 20KHz, or was there a tweeter in the mix? That is a nice looking horn.

[colterphoto1]

And is that an original VOTT sanded down or homemade version? It's quite striking.

[TBrennan]

Seadog----I ran the saladbowl and 2420 from 700hz on up to the top. The 2420 doesn't make it all the way to 20khz, more like 16-17khz but sounds very nice.

Colter----A friend made those cabinets for me from the 825 plans in the Davis-Badmienof book. 3/4" birch plywood, extra bracing behind the horn flares. The fella is an hobbyist woodworker (a Boilermaker by trade) with all the right tools and does very nice work.

[sunnysal]

"It was the finest listening experience I have ever had!

I remember saying to myself 'God, I can't believe that anything can sound THIS GOOD!'"

Dems strong words Michael...I also wonder if the pro jubilee bass bin sounds like the consumer jubilee bass bin that Roy played for you? It would be pretty easy to compile a system like you saw in hope IF the bass bins are the same. I suspect they are not the same though, since the specs of the pro unit seem to differ from what Roy and PWK described in thier JAES article (low bass extension and upper limit). regards, tony

[Deang]

They're the same Tony. In the "home" version they used the 12 inchers from the KLF-30 (K-31-K).

[LarryC]

There's quite a few of the Heritage Gathering members who havent' posted their responses to the listening tests. I'd be interested to hear what you all thought of what Roy presented to us.

Michael

OKaaaaay...I listen differently from some of the other commenters -- I am not so familiar with the recordings of the small jazz or pop groups that tend to be used to demo Klipsch, which usually feature sharply defined individual instruments and lots of dynamics (and show up well with transistor amps, an interesting contrast with the tube predominance in our evening sessions). So, I mostly listened for overall sound quality and balance, in addition to how individual instruments were rendered. The gradation IMO was Heresy II - Cornwall III - LaScala - Jubilee with the smaller treble horn, and pro Jubilee with the very large treble horn.

Starting with the LaScala -- I was VERY impressed with this speaker. To me, it was very smooth, very open, and without the brightness I've previously associated with LaScalas. I myself did not find it muffled or laid back, but, rather a fine example of the openess and clarity of a great fully horn-loaded system. It seems to me this should be a winner, and I hope it gets visibility all over the place.

The Heresy II is a fine, almost full-range speaker, not really lacking in bass performance unless by comparison with the others. Like all the others, it was seamless and came together very nicely.

The Cornwall III is in a different world from the Heresy in the bass and lower middle range. Its overall sound is dramatically fuller. I'll happily defer to other reviewers above who have great sensitivity and listening expertise where bass and percussion transients are concerned. I did feel that the treble -- the tweet and 700 Hz mid-range horn -- sounded a little too similar to the Heresy, and that's where I thought the LaScala, with its larger MR horn and horn bass, jumped out by comparison (clearly not an opinion shared by everyone). I understand there is still a stage of voicing to be completed, however. I must say, I thought I heard an upper midrange difference between those C/Ws and Woo's Corns with the 600-Hz horn, that evening at the Goat Roper.

The two Jubilees were a real step above the LaScala and others, IMO. I understand from Roy Delgado that the bass bins were the same, although one was dressed up and the other was "pro." I also understand that the high frequency drivers and crossovers were identical between the two, so that the only difference between them was the moderately large horn on the dressed Jube vs. the BIG treble horn on the pro model. Well, there was a huge difference in sound (that's partly why I'm a fan of larger mid and treble horns) -- the pro/big horn Jube was marvellously open and astonishing in its open clarity. Anyway, that's my take, as requested.

[boom3]

"...the tooling for the K600 could not be located". Sorry, Michael,

whatever they told you, it's a dodge. These horn shapes are very simple

to reproduce from any clean existing example, with suitable

compensation for the distortion experienced when a mold made from of a

finished product. Optionally, stereolithography makes it quite

easy to make this shape in small runs, in sufficient wall thickness for

a workable horn. Powderd metal fab is another option. Mind you, I'm not

judging the design (which I've not heard) but as someone who has been

involved in reverse-engineering and prototyping, I smell some evasion

here. I am also suspicious of the rational to raise the first crossover

point to 800 Hz. Isn't there just enough room (maybe with an added inch

of depth) to squeeze in a K500, if the K601 is simply too much trouble

(whatever the reason) ?

[colterphoto1]

I guess that's possible Boom3. I don't know much about process engineering, but I have heard that story from a couple of sources. Raising the crossover to 800 is even higher than the K700 requires, maybe it's a driver protection issue as well. I should stop surmising and just ask Roy directly.

There is not room for a K500 horn in a CW box. as it is, with the K600 and K55 driver, the cabinet dampening material at the back of the cabinet is compressed. It barely fits.

Please remember, the LS2 and H3 are in production. The CW3 is NOT at this time. We heard the only prototype in existence. It could change again. It could not be released. We don't know.

Michael

[BS Button]

Double post....drats

[BS Button]

I was expecting something like this. Aren't these midrange horns available?

[TBrennan]

BS---I ordered those horns from Klipsch Pro but the model they came from is no longer made. However they have other small tractrix horns that would probably work as well.

Or one could order a tractrix horn from Bruce Edgar.

[colterphoto1]

That's kinda what I'm thinking about. But maybe a larger one.[]

But with the larger horn, there's not room to move the woofer up to solve the standing wave pattern. Maybe that's one reason Klipsch stayed with the narrow horn.

Nevermind, I'll just put my mambo Tractrix on top like in the earlier posts!

Michael

[BS Button]

My Cornwalls don't have a standing wave problem. They are from 1983. That may be at the heart of what or why they would introduce a Cornwall III. I just don't know how you can or could improve. Just different, is all. Just go "Back to the Future" and your done.

[colterphoto1]

check out this thread

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/605978/ShowPost.aspx

a member claims to have a pair of CW3's on order. Whadya think?

M

[BS Button]

I've seen that Colter. Still don't know how you improve, though. Maybe just use a Tractrix in the mid?Glad to see they're coming back in any form!

BS

[Daddy Dee]

BS

You are right in suspecting that there is not alot that can be done to

improve a Cornwall. In contrast to where the Cornwall III is going,

likely crossed at 800 hz for the mid.... Bob Crites Cornscala employs a

K401 horn and crosses at 400 like a Khorn or LaScala. To my ears,

this opens up the midrange in a good way and maintains the big cab

volume for killer bass. Kind of a best of both worlds combination, IMO.

Of course, it's not an option that would work inside the Cornwall cab,

but is good food for thought. If there was a good tractix horn option

to fit in the CW cab it would be very nice.

[kenratboy]

I would love to 'tear up' some of 'my' music on these speakers.

Going from my F3's (they are mean speakers that can kick your @$$) to

the Chorus II's is amazing. The bass on the F3's would put most

'consumer' subwoofers to shame, but then you play with the Chorus

II's...wow - they have some serious slam with about 2mm of cone

excursion.

One of my favorite things to play with is a DJ Krush track where there

are some bass sweeps that go from about 150 Hz. right down to

nill. With the F3's (in a small room and my big Harman Kardon),

you go from hearing the bass to a shaking floor. The Chorus II's

take it a step further with pressurising the room. It would be

fun to see how this will work with the new stuff if they are pull the

bass down even further.