Al Klappenberger Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Guys, GACK! I have to agree with Bob again! The more complex a filter is the more losses are accumulated and the more critial each part becomes. Greg, I find that long runs of wire are best of stranded wire and short runs are best of solid. My Universal network is liad out with long runs for one of the 2.2 uF caps. In fact, it utilizes the entire 4 1/4 inch length of one of the Hovland caps leads. To use a solid wire there would work, of course, but it's just not my style. The other one gets cut short though. The second 2.2 uF is not a problem and could have virtually any lead configuration. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I will agree that this is one of the best damn threads I've seen here in weeks. Weird how such a simple thread topic set it off. Listenen to "Crowbar" really loud on my Cornscalas (sbb) and there is no fatigue even though this is some really thrashy fatboy heavy metal. Now why is this important? Well, I have some Dean G'ed ALK B's in these and there is no fatigue at all. On this setup, it is all Solen parts. Two of the capacitors are F/F. I am mentioning this because I think design plays a role as well as stereo components. If there was some yellow caps in there, I bet It would make little difference. On the other hand, let's consider some of the basic first order networks which is somewhat how this thread was started. Let's say I stuck a type "B" network in there. One with fast caps and the other one with Hovlands. I bet there would be a noticeable difference between the two. Unlike the Hovlands added to the ALK "B" network. Could it be plausible that the more "complexity" of the network may make it less sensitive to lower cost capacitors. Or is there a better word than "complex" that would make my arguement believable. I'm gettin ready to build some ALK Universal A's, Super AA, and Type B's vs B-3. It would be great to get away with "fast caps" from Solen. jc This post made me think I better clarify something. When I say I don;t care for Solens my only experience is with the less expensive Metalize caps that are black in color. Dean as been prodding me for a while to give there F&F a whirl. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Guys, Greg, I find that long runs of wire are best of stranded wire and short runs are best of solid. My Universal network is liad out with long runs for one of the 2.2 uF caps. In fact, it utilizes the entire 4 1/4 inch length of one of the Hovland caps leads. To use a solid wire there would work, of course, but it's just not my style. The other one gets cut short though. The second 2.2 uF is not a problem and could have virtually any lead configuration. AL K. Al, Not to nit pick but my name is Craig LOL !! Lets go into this stranded lead thing a bit. I have no clue how this could really make a difference? I mean your talking 1" to 4" I just don't see how that could make some sonic difference but then the actual caps makes no difference at all? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 It was my understanding that Al's choice to use solid or stranded was based on considerations other than sonic quality. Al made no claim to sonic differences. It's probably an ease of construction issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 It was my understanding that Al's choice to use solid or stranded was based on considerations other than sonic quality. Al made no claim to sonic differences. It's probably an ease of construction issue. Well then I still don't get it[] MAybe he is worried about a stress factor with the rigidity of sold leads? In my experience stranded leads on capacitors are a real pain in the but to work with but then I'm working in the different environment. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Consensus is the gateway to mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Pretty deep thought for a Sunday morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 It's a Sunday thing. Yeah, it sounds cool, but I suppose it's not completely true. I was thinking that consensus is somewhat rooted in compromise, and I guess that's mostly a good thing. However, everyone involved with this stuff does a lot of homework and works very hard to get things right where they think they should be. Everything is thought out to the nth degree, and then you find what you think might be a grain of sand in your Rolex -- but you're not really sure. The more you try to dig it out, the more elusive it becomes, and the next thing you know you have springs all over the place. For me, it's been an extremely expensive and exhausting process. Though I want to be intellectually honest, I don't want to just start pretending I don't notice the differences I hear. One might think that after a year or two of trying to digest just about everything available on the subject you come out on the other side all clean and pertied up. In the end though, you just feel like you've been hung, drawn, and quartered. I'll tell you what I think: If you're going to live by the meausurements alone you're going to die by them -- it's probably not a good idea to assume that just because you can't hear a positive difference no one else can either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Craig, Sorry about the name.. I got a rotten memeory! On the stranded / solid lead thing, it's just a personal preferance for stranded wire on longer runs. Solid wire holds and shows every kink. With stranded wire the route from one place to another always has nice gentle bands. I just think it looks neater that way. When wiring a chassis this is particularly true. Nothing looks worse than solid wires each one going it's own way. WIth straned wire you can use lacing cord or cable ties to make neat looking bundles. Soild wire just doesn't lay well even when you lace it. For short runs (under and inch or so) soild makes a nice straight shot. Nothing looks worse to me than trying to make square corners on sold wire unless the corners are perfect and the runs are perfectly straight. This is very difficult to do. It usualy comes out looking hokey! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Dean, By the way, I think it's time for you to change avatars again.. Here's a suggestion: Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 This one might be better for Dean. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 How about Thomas the Tank Engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Oh no! I'm agreeing with Bob AGAIN! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Oh you guys are soooo funny. Hell, everyone here knows those two trains are named Al and Bob. When the dust settles I should have plenty of room to squeeze by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I don't have my glasses on is that an n't in small print behind the word could? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Yup thought so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Dean, Are you saying that Bob and I are on the same track? Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Well what-ah-ya know, Craig is right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Al, yeah -- but you're both going in different directions! Craig -- testing the limits of your imagination again? I hope you didn't hurt yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Just for fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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