Tube of Choice?

[KT88Lover]

Hi guys!

My first post here, thanks for having me!

Was just wondering, what seems to be the most popular output tube for matching with Heritage, or is there one?

Great place, by the way!

Mundy

[Coytee]

Welcome...

With that said, I'll go pull my EZ chair up so I can watch some of the fireworks.

Some think blondes are best whilest others thing bruenetts or redheads are the only way to go.

[Thoriated_Tiger]

Most popular != 'best'. There is no one best tube for this job.

Me? I dig 2A3 in single-ended, I dig EL34, I dig 6550, EL84..

300B.. have not heared the more 'exotic' ones like 845 and 211s and

such.

I also extensively dig digital amplification through horns. Heretical, idn't it... []

[KT88Lover]

Welcome...

With that said, I'll go pull my EZ chair up so I can watch some of the fireworks.

Some think blondes are best whilest others thing bruenetts or redheads are the only way to go.

Oh! No, no ,no ,no no!

Didn't mean it like that.

Have been using KT88s with very inefficient B&Ws

Moved into a new house and am going to fufill a life long dream, Klipschorns!!!, now that I have some corners

and was just wondering if there is a trend or more favored choice than what I obviously already use

[oscarsear]

mdeneen got it right. Depends on what you put the tubes into. I drove a Cary Push Pull and the KT 90's sounder better then the 88's...rounder with broader range (this into Khorns). Also the quality and matched pairing of multiple power tubes will impart some performance on sound as well.

[KT88Lover]

"what seems to be the most popular output tube

for matching with Heritage, or is there one? "

==========

That's one way to go about it. I think a better alternative is

considering what tube topology and design will sound best (to you) and

on your speakers. The output tube - in and of itself - has next to

nothing to do with the final sound you here in an amplifier. Not that

percentages are a scientific way to assign this measure, but in a rough

way, the tube "type" probably accounts for less than 10% and the

topology and design for the other 90%. Design A sounds very different

than Design B. But swapping tubes in Design A (among those suited to

the task) will make a much smaller difference. SET, OTL, UltraLinear

PP, Class A - all these design topologies will sound remarkably

different, and that's where you will be more able to find what you like

to hear.

md

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but.....

I'm not quite sure I can agree with you on one main point

Sure, Gibsons sound different from Fenders

and do I want the early Vox sound or Mesa? Easy, what style and type of music do you play?

Obviously the type of amp has a major impact on the results, but then again should it?

More impact than the source?

I know this is one of those "which came first...?" type of open ended

questions, but you can't tell me that there is only a 10% difference or

so, between the sound of 6L6s for example and 6BQ5s when implemented in

similar 35 watt PPs, just for a hypothetical

I should have said "tube of choice with the push-pull crowd" or

prefaced my question with "sorry to ask this but..." I would lose

either way from what I can hear so far, 'cause every body's so

sensitive now days.

Sorry, but I don't know HOW to ask this question and at the same time

give a nod to every amp type and topology that there ever was or will

be.

I just figured this would be a good place to get informed and

experienced opinions, without the old TRIAL AND ERROR I'm sure a

lot of you have gone through to get where you are today, but with a

MUCH lighter wallet and no shortage of regrets and bad buying decision

stories.

Not many places you can go and sample all the tube and amp options, and

Heritage, much less K-Horns. Forget that, not many places you can

go and sample Heritage, period!

Not to beat a dead horse, but output tubes determine what IRON you can

use, and just that alone is going to have a heck of a lot more than a

10% effect on the results and how it will match up with your speaker of

choice.

I was trying to avoid asking the "What Kind of Tube Amp" do you use question, as I don't have that many years left.

Guess I failed

Thanks again for your response!

[oscarsear]

KT88....don't get frustrated. If you've followed this forum you'd see that your question is one that's in the hot topic arena AKA, "there's no simple answer". For the very reason you've asked ...it is a valid question or part of a bigger question, all with plenty of answers...At least here you won't get hype from sales minded folks...just hype from people who are in one camp or another.[]

[KT88Lover]

Umm, let me revise my answer: The KT88 sounds BEST, of course!

md

Guess YOU missed MY point, so now I get to be the BAD guy, seeking validation for his forum moniker, which is NOT the case.

For all I KNOW, the magnetron in my micro-wave oven is the best match

(I'm sorry, one of the more proven, good performing and POPULAR)

matches for Heritage.

Why is it that people have to read all sorts of garbage into the simplest of things?

[thebes]

Welcome aboard! Tubes aside, and I know you don't want to go

there but I would approach it this way. First get the horns and

try them with what you have on hand. You may not have to go any

further, could very well be what you have on hand is exactly what you

need, Then consider playing levels, if you like it loud then SET

is probably not for you.

Then, and follow this advice very closely, ask some more questions and

do exactly ,and I mean exactly, the opposite of what I recommend.[]

Actually I like el34 tubes, but quite frankly I haven't experienced KT

88's although I have heard 7591, 7189, 7868, 8417 and a few others.

[seti]

PWK used PP 2A3 in a Brook 12A and there was even a Klipschhorn mod for the Brook! I really like my 300Bs but I also liked the KT88s that I have heard. It would be difficult to go wrong with tubes and Khorns IMHO. You could buy and sell gear on audiogon till you wind up withyour amp of choice. I have been using Canary Audio SET 300B's for 2 years and love them. However, I really want to hear a new pair of Quad II forties on my Belles before I swap but I don't have the cash two have both. Have fun run the gammet from flea power to high power tubes. Don't rule anything out you never know what you'll like best.

[dbflash]

Hey Welcome and you will get use to the action here. There really are good people here and once you get to "know" them you will learn not to get upset.

What type of music do you like, how big is the room, albums or Cd's and how much do you want to spend?

I started with SET and really liked it. I got caught up with the SET vs PP and I bought a PP amp using KT88's. I chaged out the KT88's and am now using 6550A's. I really like this setup. Probably change the 6550A's, back with the original KT88's in the next week or so.

Now I'm thinking about trying SS amps...maybe.

Need alittle more info.

Danny

[Coytee]

I bought my Khorns off a forum member. I had an OLD Yamaha ss amp (120x2)

My first foray into tubes was KT-88 (Jolida 502B). I then bought Danny's Wright 2A3's and they sounded VERY sweet. I then bought Daddy Dee's Transcendent SE-OTL's (2 of them, bridged at about 4 watts/channel). I think THEY sound very sweet.

I then bought a dbx BX3 MKIII (something like 120x4, bridgable into 300x2) or something like that. it sounds great but having other issues that don't need to be brought up in this thread.

I have bought (and yet to receive)

1 McIntosh MC-2102 which I think is back to the KT88 format

2 McIntosh MC-30's which I think are the 6L6 (?)

Never heard ANY McIntosh amp so the last two will be new experiences and I'm still searching for the right mix (for me).

[Allan Songer]

WE 350B

[427rs]

I have a set of Modded Mark 3s. I am currently running a set of Tesla KT-88 Pearl Cryo Valves. (Expensive because of the Cryo treatment.) Seems to have a more detailed base which I feel my LaScalas lack. My FAVORITE tubes in my application (hard to find matching tubes one at a time) are Tung sol Black plates 6550s from the late 50s. I bought a Heathkit TT 1 tester to eventually get another matched quad so that I can run them again.

[kev313]

2a3. El34. El84.

[MarkF]

Best output tube the RCA 2A3 single plate in Class A, single ended

application, second best RCA biplate 1933 with springs on top.

[NOSValves]

Now I'm thinking about trying SS amps...maybe

Is it time for me to give you a call []

Craig

[mobile homeless]

The thing I've found is that output tubes can sound so different within different applications so a lot depends on the circuit and implementation/operating points. I have heard amps with the same tubes sound unappealing to me, musically speaking. One thing I found long ago is that I prefer tube rectified circuits almost universally over SS. It's a subtle difference to some with many saying it's a non-factor when SS is done well (ie snubber/Hexfreds etc). In my view, tube rectification brings a sense of relaxation or naturalness to the presentation that SS doesn't seem to impart. I found SS rectified amps tend to sound a bit more hard sounding, with a brittleness to the sound, again, a subtle, yet important difference, but a difference I find that makes or breaks that last bit of importance. Of the rectifier tubes, besides implementation, which means about everything, I seem to like the Mullard CV-378/GZ-37, RCA 5R4GY (not a soft start tube), EZ-81, 5Y3, and vintage 5AR4 if having to pick.

On the whole, I've seemed to prefer Class A driver stages although this isn't in stone. For preamps, I gravitate towards octals in the line stage (ie 6SN7/5692/6SL7/5691) but have heard 9 pin tube preamps that I've liked. I found myself not liking 6922 preamps as much but realize, again, that implementation means a lot. Looks like I am going to be doing a 5687 preamp to the mix in the near future.

On output tubes, for push pull, I really dig the little EL-84 tube. This is such a sweet sounding tube that packs a great punch in the bottom but with an amazingly open midrange and nice top end. Again, it's the circuit that matters a lot but damn if I have loved more EL-84 amps than not, especially the many vintage variants. It's hard to beat a great EL-84 vintage amp. The overall respect I have for the amazing little EICO HF-81 has not diminished one bit, even with a host of other options passing through or coming to rest here. I have a Scott 299B here at the moment that Rick Warren (TUIT) modified ( http://home.earthlink.net/~aeholsten/scott_299b/ ) that does sound extremely nice. The Scott 299B has a seductive richness with a powerful bottom and lower midrange drive. On the other hand, it does lack the last bit of open refinement of the HF-81 when at its best. Both are excellent examples of GREAT vintage amp sound that can work excellent within a Klipsch system (or powering some good monitor speakers).

My next favorite for the Klipsch PP experience is the EL-34 output which has a richness and BIG bluesy sound that seems to really do well via the Cornwall. In some ways, I actually like the EL-34 take more than the EL-84 on the Cornwall, depending on the music. It's not as buttoned up presentation but it's got this big, open sound that really seems to gel with 60s rock. I usually prefer the EL-34 to the KT-88, which has a more neutral presentation with perhaps a better top and bottom subjectively but lacking a bit in the kind of midrange lushness that brings special accolades to the EL-34 when done right. Another tube that I have REALLY liked in guitar amps is the 6V6 and this is going to be one of my next options for PP with the CW. Not a lot of power here, but a great tube sonically.

Lastly, for SET amps, I have loved both the 2A3 and the 300B, perhaps more than some of the larger options like the 845 and 211. I have heard a few of the 63CCB-C in both SET and parallel SET that offers an amazingly clear presentation but a presentation that seems to lack of the tube midrange that I find captivating and part of what draws me to tubes. The 2A3 is amazingly open, unfettered, and ALIVE sounding when done well. It has a wonderful startlingly open midrange with the best examples and an amazingly good bottom end. It's a realness and a sense of bringing the musicians with venue in the room that I have found equaled by few. The SET option reveals part differences/choices and output iron is CRITICAL here. All things being equal, the 300B seems to sound a bit of a more romantic take with slightly less tightness on the bottom but a wonderfully rich midrange.

OF the most importance here is the fact that ALL THESE TUBES CAN SOUND DIFFERENT with different operating points so that is the big rub. Definite statements in audio are almost impossible to make, despite seeing them within forums and articles with the frequency of banging a gong. This place is so well-known for the OPINION delivered with iron-clad certainty, only to be completely contradicted later, that it's almost a truism now. Ole Maxg's signature should be given as a notice in the header here.

kh

[DRBILL]

Right after the earth cooled, I found myself a student at The University of the South, which was at that time not coed. We wore coats and ties to class and to the refectory and the upper classmen and graduate students and professors wore academic gowns. I couldn't make this up.

An all male campus could go pretty raunchy pretty quick with that much pent-up testosterone. Any time things were getting close to the tipping point, a wise upper classman would say, "Boys, M & M," and things would calm down immediately. This was before the days of the popular candy. In our setting, M & M meant manners and morals. We stopped being beasts and rejoined the human race.

KT88LOVER deserves our apology. Some of us have treated a newcomer in a very shabby manner. I am sorry for him and embarrassed for the rest of us. I wouldn't say a word if this was the first time this had happened, but you are all well aware of other episodes.

"Boys, M & M." If you know any thing that works better than being civil, I would be glad to hear from you.

Having been exposed to the Klipsch ethos and its perfection should ennoble us.

Here endeth the lesson.

DRBILL

ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE FROM SEWANEE?

[3dzapper]

Thank you Dr Bill. I'll try to watch my M&M.

I'm in the DHT crowd these days. (Who knows what tomorrow will bring?) I listen to my 300B SET and love it. Warm mids and great bass for a SET amp. The highs are silky smooth on the JBL 2404 tweeters. I don't use any artsy-totsy output tubes just $120 a pair EH Gold Grids.

My other "favorite" is the 2A3 Push/Pull Wright Mono 10s. That is what is playing now. All the sweet 2A3 class A sound with a bit more vitality than George Wright's 3.5 SET amps. I recently did a mod recommended by George that amounts to an ultrapath capacitor on the cathodes, let's say that the jury is still out on that one. The sound is glorious across the board but the percieved bass is lower. I know that it is just because the bass is cleaner with less triode "tubbiness" just as it was recorded yet, as a mortal, I yearn for more. My favorite 2A3 is the Sylvania engraved base with these amps. Far smoother and sweeter than the NOS RCA double plates though theRCAs are not bad either nor are the stock Sovteks when fully burned in.

My itteration of an EL-34 amp is the Jolida 302B. It is not up to the levels of the other two with the Khorns. With the Heresys it's extra power, even in "triode" mode is better though. It is now powering my Belles. My 17.5WPC EL-84 amp again is not up to the standards of the DHTs but does have more "slam", a characteristic of the EL-84 biased hot.

7591 based scott integrateds have a warm place in my heart as well. They suffer though in that the pre-amp section is not on a par with the Blueberry Extreme. I have a Scott 340B 7591 powered reciever driving Cornwalls in the living room upstairs for my wife. She likes it.

Someday i will get my 6550 mono blocks done. Based on Mark III iron they should rock.

Rick