jerohm Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I am certainly NO premium speaker wire aficionado, but what I can tell you is all the 12 gauge stuff I bought from Home Depot has turned green-black. The twenty year old plus Original Monster Cable looks the same as the day I bought it. The Home Depot stuff has also developed a tacky feel to it. I live on the coast and do not have air conditioning, so the open windows might have something to do with it, but I am wondering if any of you guys have experienced similar luck??? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 There is definately good wire and bad,good wire just don't have to cost a fortune.I personally would not use run of the mill HD/or other cheapy wire but as you said only because of quality/longivity,not magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Your HD wire has oxidized , chunk it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I am certainly NO premium speaker wire aficionado, but what I can tell you is all the 12 gauge stuff I bought from Home Depot has turned green-black. The twenty year old plus Original Monster Cable looks the same as the day I bought it. The Home Depot stuff has also developed a tacky feel to it. Looks like you got the same brand / batch that Roger Russell mentions in his article. If i recall, Monster has not been imune to similar problems with a couple of their suppliers http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#alllowcost ROb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 My Home Depot wire did the same. in 1 1/2 years my insulation became brittle and would crack when I bent the wire. I have replaced all of it. Most of it with Black 12GA outdoor low voltage wireing. It now is 2 years old and as flexable as the day I installed it. I am so glad I ran conduit to all my speaker locations. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 There are some that say wire is wire. I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I think when the wire turns black and oxidized its somehow the wire covering that is leaking air. it may have no properly been set onto the wire leaving the chance that air will leak in over time. Even if it is oxygen free, that means it was made in a (probably) nitrogen environment but if the coating leaks air then that really means nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Guess it depends on the brand you buy at HD. I bought Carol speaker wire there several years ago and it's just a pliable and clear as the day I bought it. The jacket is incredibly thick, yet flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Guess it depends on the brand you buy at HD. I bought Carol speaker wire there several years ago and it's just a pliable and clear as the day I bought it. The jacket is incredibly thick, yet flexible. Well I bought the only bulk 12 gauge speaker wire they were selling at THAT store. Before its dismal failure, it looked vitually identical to the Original Monster cable (which I paid about $1/foot) and cost about .33/foot to be best of my recollection. I guess the supplier or production run could be the key. Mine looks more BLACK than green and although the insulation remains flexible, it developed an awful sticky feel to the touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndskyz Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Brand and gauge really doesnt matter. What does matter is that the wire is Oxygen free. If not Oxygen will eventually cause the wire to corrode. Soldering the ends (tinning) will hel reduced oxidation as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 im not a material engineer but I remember from working with them that there are some cheap plastic/vinyls that get sticky over time but is also porous and will allow a minute amount of air through. Kinda like osmosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 It is a chemical reaction between the copper, the actual jacket, and air... definitely a sign of an inexperienced wire company. You can't go wrong with reputable wire manufacturers like Carol Cable and Belden... Inwall installations should use FT4 plenum grade wire, and i like "TireCap" (sp?) style wires for in room use. In Wall: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-740 In Room: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-567 ROb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuclearay Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I am certainly NO premium speaker wire aficionado, but what I can tell you is all the 12 gauge stuff I bought from Home Depot has turned green-black. The twenty year old plus Original Monster Cable looks the same as the day I bought it. The Home Depot stuff has also developed a tacky feel to it. I live on the coast and do not have air conditioning, so the open windows might have something to do with it, but I am wondering if any of you guys have experienced similar luck??? Thanks I actually replaced a bunch of Monster cable that had turned green. Very nasty stuff. My guess, is that happened as a result of using those wires when I moved from apartment to apartment. Windows were often open, etc.etc.... The replacement was the HD wire. Its been two years since I bought the enormous roll for cheap, and I've had no problems with it -- but I think that has more to do with the fact I keep my new house hermetically sealed now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
126mhz Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 There are some that say wire is wire. I disagree. http://www.roger-russell.com/ I'm not sure anyone with any knowledge in the subject believes that "Wire is wire." But given a few basic rules outlined in this link by an individual with serious experience in the audio field yes, "Wire IS wire." Check out the section specifically about speaker wire. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Roger's site is one of my favorites as I own vintage Mac gear. BUT - ....I just tried a change from my 12 gauge Monster cable to Canare 4S11 Star Quad speaker cable just as an experiment - I CAN hear a difference - subtle BUT discernable to my ears. The details are where I hear the difference. Cymbals are more defined - the decay is heard even as other instruments play over the cymbal - better defintion - I agree with Piranha in spite of the Gordon Gow test results - I never expected this to be true but for me it is a discernable difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
126mhz Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Hearing is believing,...that much I agree with. I have spent so much time reading all I can on the subject as I have been making my own connectors and speaker wire, (as a hobby) for about three years. My crowning achievement thus far was a side by side at a local high end stereo shop with some $800. connectors verses mine that I made via a recipe from the internet which cost me slightly less than $40.00. Between a CD and a Pre and between a amp and pre amp no one at the shop full of "Experts" could tell the difference. It was such a wonderful feeling changing the cables with a guy form the shop and watching them try to figure out one form the other. Last weekend I bought a pair of Audio Physic "Yaras" from a local guy who had an ad on Audiogon and went over to his place to audition the speakers on his system. He had some fairly serious coin in his two channel system, (I figure about twenty five grand retail) and he was using quite expensive silver speaker wires. There was no way to do a side by side between his gear and mine but it's no surprise his system sounded out of this world. With his gear and a far superior listening room the Audio Physic Yaras made Riki Lee Jones voice sound as good as it does on my LaScalas. (My favorite track for comparison of the fantastic highs of a womans voice on LaScalas is "On Saturday Afternoons in 1963") Riki Lee Jone's voice on this track almost brings me to tears everytime I hear it. By the way this fella with the Audio Physic Yaras was a true gentleman in that he took mercy on me and sold me the pair for a GREAT price verses what his was asking for them! (Needless to say I LOVE THESE SPEAKERS!) The main reason I love this site is the people. Most seem far more into the reality of high fidelity rather than the smoke and mirrors that is driven by the high end magazines like Stereophile. Bottom line is I can't see me ever having access to very expensive speaker wires to try in a side by side with my gear at my home because I'm not going to blow that much money on speaker wire. IF there is a difference between common speaker wire that I can construct myself and ultra expensive speaker wire by most accounts it is subtile. I can live with subtile. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 My 2 year old HD 12 gauge is as flexible and new-looking as the day it was bought. I suppose I got a good batch? It's even in my basement although I keep it dry with a dehumidifier. Still.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I also agree with Piranha, and MarkBK. However, differences seem to be system-specific, sometimes very noticeable and sometimes not or quite subtle, and may present trade-offs at best. Try before buying if you can. IMO the Roger Russell tests are staked-out opinions, but not hard fact for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
126mhz Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 If Roger Russell's tests are "Staked out opinions" then most everything all of us has added is FAR LESS. The man went to fairly deep lengths to ensure his test was as scientific as possible in terms of testing a hypothesis in a controled environment. One thing is without doubt, no one, on this board or in this world can change the laws of physics, specifically impedance, capacitance, and imductance. I'll keep as open a mind as possible given my background but most anyone involved in audio from a hobby player, to an "Audiophile," or a professional Audio Engineer with a resume in theory and practice will agree that the biggest scam currently in the industry is cable companys selling snake oil products at outrageous prices to ignorant consumers. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I have used the HD 12 ga monster wire clone before (years ago in my car stereo days) and it is junk. When you remove the sheething the individual strands break off and it does turn green (an I live in the desert where it is very dry). I now use Home Depot in wall dual conductor 14 ga and 12 ga wire. It seems to work well. I really don't want to start experimenting with speaker wire unless the rules are clearly laid out. I.e. x% silver wire is the trick, or solid copper wirth such and such a spec. Then, the wire can be obtained outside of the audio world (industrial use) for much less. By the way, I made my own interconnects out of Mogami Quad from the Guitar Center (65c per foot) and GLS ends from eBay (great ends that are about $2 each - on other sites peopel are saying that they have had them for years and the finish is still perfect, no flaking, etc.). I can't say they really made a difference because I made them when swapping gear, but I made a lot of interconnects for about $150 (including RCA to XLR - I needed several of these). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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