meagain Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 (gosh I wish the search function worked better)... I have a few LaScala questions. I've read MANY posts saying they are lacking in the bass department. And there is no comparison to Khorns, Cornwalls, Chorus, etc. And one needs a sub. OK fine - but is it 'tolerable'? If I heard LS's, would I say 'OMG, the bass s*cks!"? Assuming what I've been reading is correct and they are weak in bass, how are the mids/highs? I would think they'd sound great and similar to Khorns? I'm curious how they can be described compared to other Klipsch. One more question... Can LS's be pushed up against a wall? Or should they be away a bit & if so, about how much is optimal? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Been listening to Lascalas without a sub for 4 years and it very tolerable [] Find a single person that has visited my shop and said that my system lacked bass.......... The Khorn superiority is exaggerated to say the least IMHO. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 The La Scala bass is not weak, it is tight, accurate and detailed. While it may not have much output below 45Hz, what it does have is lightning quick and more than acceptable for just about any music genre sans Rap and Organ music. Some consider having a sub a necessity, but I tried a pair with a vintage Sansui 25W per channel receiver with them in my cellar and the bass was outstanding! I used a pair for my rears before getting my 2nd pair of Khorn's. The top end is identical to the Khorn and when it comes to vocal presentation this is where the La Scala delivers in spades, my La Scala center is awesome and even with it laying on its side and me sitting off axis from it I can still hear every little detail. I could have used a Belle, but I wanted a speaker with a matching K-400 horn. You should be able to push them up against a wall with no issues. The La Scala is a damn good speaker and sometimes does not get the credit and respect that it deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classichits Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I have had my lascalas for 4 years aswell. I have no problem with the bass. Nobody has ever complained that there was a lack of bass. I use my LS for djing. I always got good responce from people saying that they never heard music at a dance sound so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Frz - You sound like you have a dream setup! I can't even imagine how good it must sound. Any chance you have some pics laying around? Would love to see it. Interesting comments so far. Pretty positive. Hmmm.... It's just that I'm a bass freek so I fear being dissapointed. Then again, getting a sub down the road wouldn't be the end of the world. Still, its nice to have it one package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 MEAGAIN, I saw more dance clubs in the 70's & 80's driving LaScalla's to the point I had thought Klipsch cornered the dance club market if that tells you anything. Power, room and placement will get you more bass then you will ever need in a 2-channel setup[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I am driving mine with a Scott 299 (NosValves) and vinyl, and they sound great (plenty of bass). I only have 1 corner and have mine moved out about 12 inches from it. The other one has an open wall along one side. They sit about 13 feet apart and sound fantastic. Mike PS: The Scott has a Center out that can be run to another amp to drive another speaker. I will occasionally run a cable to my Samson amp which powers my SVS 20-39CSi sub. Even though that does add a little more oomph (and will go lower), it's not necessary. Depends on the music I'm playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classichits Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I agree with you kaiser. I run my LS flat when I do a dance and the bass can hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I have had my La Scala's for 20+ years. In a 2 channel rig no way do they lack bass. Now for HT they can use a sub for support for things like explosions and such below say 50 HZ but above that they rock. IMO if people can't hear the bass in a La Scala they are deaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z4! Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 The the Khorn, Belle and LaScala all have a folded horn woofer, so they are more similar than they are different. The Khorn reaches to ~32 Hz, though, and the Belle and LaScala only get down to ~50Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 But if khorns go down to 32-33 and the LaScalas go to 50hz, isn't that a VAST difference to the ears? IDK enough about these numbers to know, but isn't that quite a large gap? And, if the LaScalas have the same woofer as khorns - their less deep bass is due to their bass bin structure - yes? Are there any tweaks (x-overs, etc) that would enable them to go a bit lower? Or is that 'it'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I'm expecting Craig or BEC to chime in soon on that question[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Those rolloff Hz numbers don't compare amoung the speakers and don't represent how they sound in a room. The KHorn is rated within a mini corner, but the B and LS are not - both will have more extention and deepth placed in a room, especialy close to a wall or in the corner. That's why folks with LS are happy with solid bass performance down to 40 - 45Hz depending on room placement and room gain. LS owners describe their bass in ways (see above) that make it clear they are bass lovers (of good bass). Another way to think of it, is that I don't want to hear bass, I want to hear the instruments playing the bass. Pauln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z4! Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Those rolloff Hz numbers don't compare amoung the speakers and don't represent how they sound in a room. The KHorn is rated within a mini corner, but the B and LS are not - both will have more extention and deepth placed in a room, especialy close to a wall or in the corner. That's why folks with LS are happy with solid bass performance down to 40 - 45Hz depending on room placement and room gain. LS owners describe their bass in ways (see above) that make it clear they are bass lovers (of good bass). Another way to think of it, is that I don't want to hear bass, I want to hear the instruments playing the bass. Pauln So would you say the LaScala bass was superior to the Khorn's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Using the RS SPL meter, Stereophile Test CD #2, Rega Planet, Scott 299 and La Scalas w/AL Crossovers, I set the volume on the Scott to just under 4 to calibrate 1k hz to 79 db. These numbers also include the adjustments to the SPL meter for certain frequencies (after the plus sign). Here are the results:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Low Freqs: 200hz-82db160hz-80db125hz-81db + .5db = 81.5db100hz-82db + 2db = 84db_80hz-74db + 1.5db = 75.5db_63hz-69db + 1.5db = 70.5db_50hz-70db + 1.5db = 71.5db_40hz-72db + 2.5 = 74.5db_31hz-60db + 3db = 63db_25hz-N/A + 5db = N/A_20hz-N/A + 7.5db = N/A Mid Freqs:__250hz-79db__315hz-80db__400hz-80db__500hz-78db__630hz-79db __800hz-81db_1000hz-79db_1250hz-79db_1600hz-80db_2000hz-80db_2500hz-81db_3150hz-79db_4000hz-80db_5000hz-82dbUpper Freqs:_6300hz-85db + 2db = 87db_8000hz-81db + 3db = 84db10000hz-74db + 4.4db = 78.4db12500hz-66db + 6.2db = 72.2db16000hz-61db + 8.5db = 69.5db20000hz-52db + 12.2db = 64.2db Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I've owned LaScalas for about 25 years now and a pair of Khorns for about 1 year. I'd say the LaScalas will give you a solid punch in the sternum (with appropriate power). The Khorns will give you the same punch, it just happens to be connected to George Foreman's arm. Neither one will shake the foundation of the house (like a sub might do) but what they do have, it's prodigious, clean and absolutely gut wrenching. All that is said when I was using 120x2 solid state. I've tried a SET amp and those won't give you the same punch so part of the equation might be how much horsepower you're pumping through them. Same thing with my Khorns, I had those attached to a 2A3, then SE-OTL's. I later fed them with another solid state amp and it was like listening to an entirely different speaker (as far as slam goes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 But if khorns go down to 32-33 and the LaScalas go to 50hz, isn't that a VAST difference to the ears? IDK enough about these numbers to know, but isn't that quite a large gap? And, if the LaScalas have the same woofer as khorns - their less deep bass is due to their bass bin structure - yes? Are there any tweaks (x-overs, etc) that would enable them to go a bit lower? Or is that 'it'? Yes, Megain ... there IS a Huge difference ... Unless you own ...LaScala's and ... don't own K-Horns .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 The LaScala has a 70Hz bass horn. You have to load it in 1/8th space to get flat response to 45-50Hz. ALL Klipsch loudspeakers need to be put in a corner to get the advertised frequency response and sensitivity values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Mike's data as graphLS-freq.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 (gosh I wish the search function worked better)... I have a few LaScala questions. I've read MANY posts saying they are lacking in the bass department. And there is no comparison to Khorns, Cornwalls, Chorus, etc. And one needs a sub. OK fine - but is it 'tolerable'? If I heard LS's, would I say 'OMG, the bass s*cks!"? Assuming what I've been reading is correct and they are weak in bass, how are the mids/highs? I would think they'd sound great and similar to Khorns? I'm curious how they can be described compared to other Klipsch. One more question... Can LS's be pushed up against a wall? Or should they be away a bit & if so, about how much is optimal? Thanks! It's really going to depend on who responds and what kind of music they listen to...the claims that they dig down to 40Hz are completely ridiculous though. Below the 70Hz Fc of the cabinet the speaker acts like a normal sealed cabinet...with the K33 -10dB around 50Hz makes a lot more sense. How low it goes after room gain is really a mute issue (which I cover a bit later). Anyways, I would never even consider using the lascalas without a subwoofer for 2 channel. But I do greatly prefer the lascala + subwoofer sound over that of the khorn any day of the week. I have actually had the opportunity to do an instantaneous volume matched ABC comparison between the cornwall, chorus II and lascala with updated crossovers. The cornwall has the best bass by far - yes it's over exagerated but it sounds great with a lot of music. The chorus II has by far the best midrange and most accurate sound. The bass is a bit lacking in comparison to the cornwall, but the bass totally destroys that of the lascala. The only thing the lascala might do better than the rest of the other drivers is in the lower mids. However, a lot of people don't like the upper mids from the squaker and have upgraded to better options - two popular ones are the altec multi-cell squakers and Al's Trachorn design (I would highly recommend the trachorn approach). I would describe the lascalas as sounding like a bigger version of the heresy - and not really digging that much lower either (again, I have done instantaneous volume matched comparisons). And as a side note - one should never rely on room gain for the LF response. First of all, room gain doesn't start occuring until around 30-40Hz in a typical medium sized room. Sure, there are gains associated with corner placement, but that is something different (and it reveals itself as an overall increase in sensitivity...in other words, the lower lows aren't relatively boosted more than the higher lows). Also, if you had a perfect recording of a say a timpani solo - the recording will be more believable if your speaker is anechoically flat down to 20Hz than if it was flat down to 20Hz after room gain. The reason being that if the timpani were in your room, it would be getting the same reinforcment as your speakers - so in essence, flat after room gain is lacking in LF extension because it doesn't achieve the same sound at the listening position that the live instrument would. Room gain is merely a decieving marketing ploy...Btw, there were quite a few klipsch engineers that have explained this to me (as well as some other "smart dudes")...so it's not me just making something up. So if you were listening to rock (like Yes for example), then the lascalas will not be very satisfying at all unless you added a sub to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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