www.records Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 What are your thoughts about the statement below? A good rule of thumb when trying to pair your speakers up with the right amplifier is to buy at least as much power as your speakers are rated to handle. For example, if a speaker is rated at 75 watts maximum power, then you should buy an amplifier that can deliver at least 75 watts per channel. However, you dont need to limit yourself. You can buy a 100-watt per channel amplifier for a 75-watt speaker because more speaker failure occurs from being under powered rather than over powered. It is safer to go slightly higher with your amplifier wattage because youll never be in danger of clipping. When an amplifier is expected to deliver more current to a speaker than its capable of doing, clipping occurs. When an amplifier clips, it literally cuts off the tops and bottoms of the sound waveforms that its trying to produce. This, in turn, sends a lot of distortion into your speakers, which is bad. Distortion puts a lot of stress on your speakers, typically the tweeter, and will eventually cause them to fail. In fact, your speakers will fail before your amplifier does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 For the most part true. Too much is better than too little - although Klipsch efficiency does allow you to save money and use low power amps effectively. (it's the clipping that you want to avoid!) Of course - how loud you want to play - how big the room etc comes into play too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 What are your thoughts about the statement below? A good rule of thumb when trying to pair your speakers up with the right amplifier is to buy at least as much power as your speakers are rated to handle. For example, if a speaker is rated at 75 watts maximum power, then you should buy an amplifier that can deliver at least 75 watts per channel. However, you dont need to limit yourself. You can buy a 100-watt per channel amplifier for a 75-watt speaker because more speaker failure occurs from being under powered rather than over powered. It is safer to go slightly higher with your amplifier wattage because youll never be in danger of clipping. When an amplifier is expected to deliver more current to a speaker than its capable of doing, clipping occurs. When an amplifier clips, it literally cuts off the tops and bottoms of the sound waveforms that its trying to produce. This, in turn, sends a lot of distortion into your speakers, which is bad. Distortion puts a lot of stress on your speakers, typically the tweeter, and will eventually cause them to fail. In fact, your speakers will fail before your amplifier does. I agree in general,if an amp can deliver clean ie undistorted signals to the speaker on peaks in the music then the chances of blowing the tweets go down. I owned a set of Mirage M3si bipoar speakers a few years ago and was blowing the tweeters left and right...Im serious,went thru 3 of them.Of course I wanted to turn it up all the time tryin to make em sound like LaScala's...no chance!!! My dealer out of frustrstion recomended more power and offered me a sweet deal on trading in my Bryston 4B for the 7B monos(800 watts per at 2 ohm).The tweets were very happy after that! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.records Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 I agreed with the 2nd paragraph totally, it was the first paragraph that I had doubts about. My speakers have a max of 65 watts and I run them with MC40 tube mono's. I doubt if I have ever cranked them high enough to even use 3 watts, since they are 100db/watt/meter efficient. So I don't think I have to worry about clipping and speaker damage. I had just read the statement I brought mention to in my original post and didn't think for Hi Eff. speakers that it was a totally true statement. I just wanted other opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 minimum of 2X RMS.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 minimum of 2X RMS.............. Just two Duke? I'm surprised.[] The statements are truer with regard to SS amps than tube type. A severely clipped SS amp presents a virtual power supply short across the output devices. The increased current can damage the output devices if there is inadequate heat sinking as well as the speakers. Tube amps output current is limited by the output transformer. Once the tubes current limit is exceeded, there is essentially DC flowing through the primary windings and no further current can be induced in the secondary. Long term clipping can, of course, damage the output tubes and overheat the output transformer especially a poorly spec'ed unit. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 minimum of 2X RMS.............. Just two Duke? I'm surprised.[] now, Rick ..... I didn't graduate from the Def Jeff School of Amplification......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classichits Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I agree on more power than speakers can handle. My LSs are rated for 100 watts each. My Mitsubishi DA-A15 is rated at 150 watts/channel rms and 300 watts/channel peak. This pair have been together since 1978 and never blown anything in the LSs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 minimum of 2X RMS.............. Just two Duke? I'm surprised.[] now, Rick ..... I didn't graduate from the Def Jeff School of Amplification......[] Hey! I think I said 200 wpc is good enough in order to maintain full dynamics and avoid clipping. 30 or 40, on the other hand, would be asking for problems in this household. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Calculate how many watts you need...dBW = Lreq - Lsens + 20 * Log (D2/Dref) + HR W = 10 to the power of (dBW / 10) Where:Lreq = required SPL at listenerLsens = loudspeaker sensitivity (1W/1M)D2 = loudspeaker-to-listener distanceDref = reference distanceHR = desired amplifier headroomdBW = ratio of power referenced to 1 wattW = power requiredfrom this website:http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 When an amplifier is expected to deliver more current to a speaker than its capable of doing, clipping occurs. When an amplifier clips, it literally cuts off the tops and bottoms of the sound waveforms that its trying to produce. I would insert voltage in the first sentence, instead of current. Other than that, go for all the power you can afford if you listen to loud music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 A good rule of thumb when trying to pair your speakers up with the right amplifier is to buy at least as much power as your speakers are rated to handle. For example, if a speaker is rated at 75 watts maximum power, then you should buy an amplifier that can deliver at least 75 watts per channel. However, you dont need to limit yourself. You can buy a 100-watt per channel amplifier for a 75-watt speaker because more speaker failure occurs from being under powered rather than over powered. It is safer to go slightly higher with your amplifier wattage because youll never be in danger of clipping. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I cant agree with this rule of thumb unless you are simply trying for the loudest possible sound out of conventional cone spkrs. Remember this is big ole horns the rules are completely different. If you buy solid-state amplifiers rated at double what your sprkr can handle and then run them at half their power, then you are running the amplifiers at about middle of their THD curve. In other words, at their lowest possible distortion point. At full power, it isnt just the current that blows out cheap or unprotected tweeters, it is also the enormous distortion the amplifier has at its peak output. This rule then is certainly true for conventional cone spkrs, which are hungry for the power to make them sound effortless and dynamic like real music. Yet it is not so true with awesomely efficient big ole horns. While I have run amazingly efficient Cornwalls with vintage Carver solid-state amplifiers rated at twice what the Corns can handle without any problem, it was not measurably louder than my dual Dynaco ST70 tube amps: except the bass was solid and hard hitting. Records, you dont please specify your system (# of channels now and planned, amps, subs, room size, acoustic treatments, EQ, music source (iPod, PC, DVD, etc.), your age, music and movie preferences, percent of movie versus music listening), in your profile. This would give thoughtful posters information to provide answers tailored to your situation, not just simply spout off their preferences for their own situation. [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 . If you buy solid-state amplifiers rated at double what your sprkr can handle and then run them at half their power, then you are running the amplifiers at about middle of their THD curve. In other words, at their lowest possible distortion point. like I said ... 2X RMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.records Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 Colin, I added a signature line that contains my system. I am currently not looking to change my system, I just questioned the original statement, as I doubted it's accuracy. To answer some of your other questions, I am 52, primarily listen to vinyl, but also listen to some fav. CD's. 60's early 70's rock, jazz and blues. I don't try to achieve live levels. My ALtecs are 100db/watt/meter and 40 watts per channel is way more than I will ever lose, especially since I listen nearfield in a 11x13 dedicted music room. Why do I hang out some on a Klipsch site? I love horns!!! And figure that even though vintage Klipsch and vintage Altec are not exactly the same, there are similarities. Colin, thanks for your interest. I would be interested in thoughts and feedback. Duke, I have never heard Khorns, but from your posts I think you have heard Altec 604's. Is their sound similar? Just curious. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaptainKlipsch Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 A related question is this: If I am using an amp that is sufficient, power wise and providing clean power to an efficient Klipsch Speaker, does it improve the overall sound by adding a larger more expensive amplifier with more watts? Only a few watts may be used in each case. The amplifiers for sake of arguement are generally similar. For example using a 300wpc amp as opposed to a 100 wpc amp. I have heard differing opinions on this in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 "For the most part true. Too much is better than too little - although Klipsch efficiency does allow you to save money and use low power amps effectively. (it's the clipping that you want to avoid!) Of course - how loud you want to play - how big the room etc comes into play too!" I thought that when I first bought Klipsch speakers. Now I just don't think its true. Klipsch speakers can get by on less power, but you have to buy very high quality power and its is expensive. You also have to buy very high quality sources. It all adds up very quickly. Digital amps are a blessing and I am so impressed with my Teac's. But then again I have them teamed up with a QSC 1202 200 wpc powerhouse. I have a 15 year old Denon Receiver that is harsh on Klipsch. I just bought a set of JBL L100T's and this thing works well with it (as it did with my old L60T's and my LX 55's given to me by a friend). The JBL's don't have the detail, but are very forgiving on lousy sources. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 In answer to Kaptain's question, all other specs being equal except wattage, the only benefit I can see to increasing wattage is to avoid clipping. I have heard people say when an amp clips you can hear it. I, for one, have seen an amp clip many times, but could never "hear" it. The next thing you know, the tweeter is fried. What is true about clipping is that the peaks get "cut off" and you lose dynamics. The sound is more muddled as all the instruments' volume seems to converge. If you can stay away from clipping, the dynamics are retained, and the music sounds more punchy and crisp, and less muddled and distorted. If you're curious to try, get a 30-watt receiver and crank the heck out of it. Compare what it sounds like to 150 wpc playing at the same loudness. You can use and SPL meter. I don't think you'd see as much dynamics loss/clipping going from 100 wpc to 150 wpc until you get it really loud. I used to run a 90 wpc Marantz and it clipped, frying the tweeter on my Cornwalls. Going to a 325 wpc (or whatever it is at 8 ohm) Crown, I never had a problem, and the dynamics improved vastly. The peaks were preserved like nothing I ever heard out of my 90 wpc Marantz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 ". The JBL's don't have the detail really ..?? i've never had "T's " but that definitely isn't true of other JBL's i have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I haven't heard clipping through my own equipment (I try never to treat my stuff poorly) but I remember many in college that did...Fridays when the power was turned ALL the way up...it sounded to me like the highs and lows were cut off and were a sign of the speakers road to death...as I recall anyway, your mileage may vary...I always tried to decide on who's amp-receiver-integrated had the sound I liked and then tried to get the most powerful I could afford within that line...that usually meant not too much power (never had much cash but I preferred a better made amp to the higher "advertised" power number...finding stereo shops in the day with employees I trusted over those that had just a hunk of plastic to hawk (like I find all too much these days)... The other day my brother and I visited and "Old Time" store (Simply Stereo with many employees formally of HiFi Hutch for Chicagoans) and was pleased to find a helpful and knowledgable sales guy that seemed to be selling what you need (based on asking the buyer questions) over what needs to be moved today. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.