Deang Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 "...is the BEC tweeter a mod for ALL K'Horns and similar speakers, or is it fixing a problem of the older networks solved by Klipsch with the AK-4 network?" It's not technically "fixing a problem". However, the K-77 is outdated and not the greatest performer as far as tweeters go. Simply put, there are better drivers, and Bob has chosen one to modify so it can be used as a drop-in replacement. Now, at this point, 'drop-in replacement' pretty much only applies to those using the older filters. Until someone hears from Delgado or Hunter -- I don't think AK-4/AL-4/AB-3 users should be using them. The AK-4 network doesn't fix problems with the older networks -- what it does is address a known problem in the FR of the bass bin and distortion artifacts caused by the K-401 that the older networks didn't deal with -- how's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 DeanG, Thank you very much...you made it as clear as a Bell(e) for me.Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 So Bob, can I drop one of these new tweeters into my center channel La Scala that I am running an all Auricapped DHA2Xover network in, that DeanG hot rodded. I think Dean removed the bulb and used the zener's in it but if I remember correctly it runs the tweeter 1.5db hotter than normal. I want even more detail out of my center channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 "This crossover mod has the advantage of narrowing the bandwidth of the K55, which makes for the smoother mid-tweeter transition." Because you've lowered the crossover point -- yes -- but it also lowers distortion emanating from the throat of the horn. Dean, Running the K55 topped out at 4500 hz lowers the distortion from the mouth of the horn? That's a good thing, right? Could you say more about what is going on there to make that so. Also, have you had a chance to hear this tweeter? I don't understand what would prevent it from sounding good on a higher order network. Would a pair of your super AA's be an example of a higher order network with which to test the new tweeter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I use the ALK universal A's and it pretty much dusts the K77's in my LS. Much cleaner, more detailed and smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I use the ALK universal A's and it pretty much dusts the K77's in my LS. Much cleaner, more detailed and smoother. ditto my experience running the tweeter with the ALK universal type A replacement in my Khorns. It ran the K77 into the ditch and beat the Beyma, to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 "This crossover mod has the advantage of narrowing the bandwidth of the K55, which makes for the smoother mid-tweeter transition." Because you've lowered the crossover point -- yes -- but it also lowers distortion emanating from the throat of the horn. Dean, Running the K55 topped out at 4500 hz lowers the distortion from the mouth of the horn? That's a good thing, right? Could you say more about what is going on there to make that so. Also, have you had a chance to hear this tweeter? I don't understand what would prevent it from sounding good on a higher order network. Would a pair of your super AA's be an example of a higher order network with which to test the new tweeter? Lowering the crossover point would only increase throat overload distortion, after all, you are pushing more waveforms (i.e., "air") through the same size opening! It only figures. Raising it (i.e., limiting the response bandwidth) would tend to decrease the tendancy. The SPL is a factor in this, of course. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hey Bob, Do you have any polar response measurements? I know it's a bit difficult to do, but you're a creative guy [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 DrWho, No, I have not done that. My guess is that it would be close to the same as the K-77 (EV T-35) since the horn shape is the same. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hmmm...so is this just a new driver then? I thought you were making a new horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 It is a new horn, but keeps the shape of the old horn. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 "Hmmm...so is this just a new driver then?" I wouldn't trivialize it. The idea was to provide an improvement in treble while providing ease of installation in the form of a drop in replacement. Using a different tweeter horn would have prevented that. Right now, if anyone upgrades to better tweeters they have to sit the things on top of their speakers. "Lowering the crossover point would only increase throat overload distortion, after all, you are pushing more waveforms (i.e., "air") through the same size opening! It only figures. Raising it (i.e., limiting the response bandwidth) would tend to decrease the tendancy. The SPL is a factor in this, of course." True -- if you're lowering the transition point between the squawker and the bass bin. In this case however it's the transition point between the squawker and the tweeter. Bob is using a low pass on the squawker to roll off it's upper end response, and he's taking advantage of the new tweeter's better performance down low to off-load energy from the mid driver/horn. I suspect the midrange sounds a lot cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 "This crossover mod has the advantage of narrowing the bandwidth of the K55, which makes for the smoother mid-tweeter transition." Because you've lowered the crossover point -- yes -- but it also lowers distortion emanating from the throat of the horn. Lowering the crossover point would only increase throat overload distortion, after all, you are pushing more waveforms (i.e., "air") through the same size opening! Ummm... they were talking about lowering the upper crossover point of the K55 (mid range)... ie: reducing the bandwidth which the K55 is forced to reproduce. Raising it's lower crossover point would be even more beneficial, but we all know that the Khorn bass horn is already at (past) it's upper limit. Yes, this does increase the demands on the BEC-77, but that is supposed to be one of the benefits of going with this unit. BTW, I doubt throat overload is a problem in the frequency range it's operating. ROb PS: Dean typed quicker than I... don't you hate when that happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 "Hmmm...so is this just a new driver then?" I wouldn't trivialize it. eep, wasn't trying to trivialize... I was just wondering if the extra HF response was from a better driver or a narrowed dispersion pattern. Will Bob be bringing these to the mixer? I would love to do some AB comparisons. I can't afford to purchase them, but I'd love to give them a listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Oops, sorry.[:S] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Will Bob be bringing these to the mixer? I would love to do some AB comparisons. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I was just wondering if the extra HF response was from a better driver or a narrowed dispersion pattern.Hm, interesting question. Could Klipsch be talked into testing the polar response for us folks? Ask Roy to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 "Hmmm...so is this just a new driver then?" I wouldn't trivialize it. Will Bob be bringing these to the mixer? I would love to do some AB comparisons. I can't afford to purchase them, but I'd love to give them a listen. Who, If for some reason Bob can't I can/will, just let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Do we have a price point on a pair of these new tweeters yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 $150/pair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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