ottscay Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Hey Mark; thanks for your review. I am not surprised that the separates system did as well or better, it's easier to avoid coloring sound when you can separate the amp from the processor. I am impressed by the things I continue to hear about the Outlaws. One thing I wish you'd tried (for my own curiosity) was using the preouts of the AVR300 to drive the Outlaw amp. That would have given you a more direct comparison of the processing abilities of the two (and hence a better clue to the higher end Arcam processor). Also, I wish you had because I'm considering getting an outboard amp and letting my AVR300 drive it as an entry way into the world of separates, and I am curious how much of a difference it is likely to make. Still, excellent and thoughtful review! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 Having the ability to do that via remote is important to me. Mark - you mentioned really likeing the Outlaw interconnects received with the units. I desperately need interconnects and went to the site to look around. So many size options to choose from. Would you be able to tell me which ones you have that you appreciate so much so that I can order those separately? Lisa, I ordered several types PCA - those are to connect CD out to preamp/reciever in OR Pre to power amp - Any analog device (CD, SACD analog outs, etc) PSC - Those are for Coaxial digital audio (as opposed to Optical out) AND for Component video (DVD audio, etc). 75 Ohm tip to tip. PDO - Optical cable for optical out (Cable box, DVD, etc) Sizes are up to you - 1.8 is about 4' .5 is about 19.5" They are AWESOME cables! But REALLY BIG in diameter EXTREMELY well made too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Thanks Mark - for some reason I though they offered various diameter choices. Are they fairly flexible? Too bad they don't have color options but I guess I could add my own identifiers. Mark - I see the blue lights seem to be a very deep blue. I saw a BK amp with such deep blue that it was almost hard to see. How are these on the eyes? And - does the remote have any type of screen to show you where you're at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pythagore Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Mark, Most other Arcam players stated that AVR300 Receiver was 95% sound quality of a AVP700 Pre-Pro. Based on your thoughts that the 990 is dead-even or better than a AVR300 receiver means the 990 is dead-even or very close to a AVP700 (which is MSRP $2200 = 2x 990 cost) The other issue is the AVP700 shuts down from static electricty every 3-4 months requiring a power cycling for most users...Unacceptable on a $2200 unit. Thanks for the additional detail to your review, Vince Non-sense!!! I had both the Outlaw and the Arcam, and compared to Mark I heard differently. Due the reason, you should only always listen for yourself, not what other users tell you. And again the AVP700 is not the AVR300. And as stated previously, I'll will be chocked if the 990 sounds better than the AVR300. By the way I'm not just talking non-sense or guessing or spelling what someone else told me. I had the Outlaw 990 for 2 months, then sold it on ebay a week after I bought the AVP700. Have a look for yourself at my ebay auction of the 990. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5830682067 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 P - I'd like to hear your comments between the sound of the Outlaw 900 vs. Arcam AVP700. How would you peg the differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I seldom agree with most reviews,THIS one I could have wrote as I agree 99%. Here's another good one http://www.nebyhifi.no/documents/RSX-1056HomeCinemaJuly04.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m8o Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I seldom agree with most reviews,THIS one I could have wrote as I agree 99%. Here's another good one http://www.nebyhifi.no/documents/RSX-1056HomeCinemaJuly04.pdf ya but you just made my decision hard again, as Rotel had been on my short list but I didn't know if I'd want to spen the extra $$$. Now, maybe... [8] Thanx for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 Hey Mark; thanks for your review. I am not surprised that the separates system did as well or better, it's easier to avoid coloring sound when you can separate the amp from the processor. I am impressed by the things I continue to hear about the Outlaws. One thing I wish you'd tried (for my own curiosity) was using the preouts of the AVR300 to drive the Outlaw amp. That would have given you a more direct comparison of the processing abilities of the two (and hence a better clue to the higher end Arcam processor). Also, I wish you had because I'm considering getting an outboard amp and letting my AVR300 drive it as an entry way into the world of separates, and I am curious how much of a difference it is likely to make. Still, excellent and thoughtful review! ottscay, Thank you. I must emphasize that the Arcam AVR300 IS an outstanding receiver. The differences were subtle details that are important to ME. With that in mind, I can say that I would NOT regret owning the Arcam but since I have the opportunity to test, I found the Outlaw better to MY ears. I actually did consider doing what you suggested - using the Arcam pre-outs, but I ran out of time. I may still do it again in the future - just for fun. I'm confident the Arcam would perform quite well in that set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 Thanks Mark - for some reason I though they offered various diameter choices. Are they fairly flexible? Too bad they don't have color options but I guess I could add my own identifiers. Mark - I see the blue lights seem to be a very deep blue. I saw a BK amp with such deep blue that it was almost hard to see. How are these on the eyes? And - does the remote have any type of screen to show you where you're at? Given their diameter, yes, they are fairly flexible - but not overly so. the RCAs are locking too!The lights are very easy on the eyes and the remote buttons light up a cool blue too! No screen though - it is a button only style remote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 I seldom agree with most reviews,THIS one I could have wrote as I agree 99%. Here's another good one http://www.nebyhifi.no/documents/RSX-1056HomeCinemaJuly04.pdf Fish, Aw come on! Only 99%?????[6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Mark, I appreciate you taking the time to match up the AVR300 vs. 990. Three others have stated in PM emails to me that Arcam AVR300 sound and the AVP700 sound is near identical w/ a slight edge to the pre/pro(AVP700). These three others also stated the AVR300 and AVP700 for 2-channel music was in a different league from the 990. For DVD movies, the 990 and AVR300/AVP700 were quite close. Obviously your opinion differs from theirs. From reading your post, you use stronger verbage on the AVR300. I noticed you focused on live music recordings giving the 990 the edge...Did you listen to just plain studio recorded CD's? what was the 990 and avr300 delta there? Actually I listened to a wide variety of music - live and studio jazz recordings - DeeDee Bridgewater; Ray Brown, Rock - Peter Gabriel - So; Dire Straits - remastered Brothers In Arms; Kate Bush - Aerial, etc.. The reference to sounding live was in regards to a guitar sounding like it was in the room - and this was on a studio recording (very well recorded - I might add). Bear in mind the Arcam and Outlaw are awfully close in most respects - but the Outlaw is 100.00 cheaper AND offers the latitude of seperate components. What would be your opinion on: 1) DVD Movies: 990 is X % of a AVR300 sound quality They use the same DSP and to my ear are similar in most respects. The Outlaws, however had a great dynamic range - so I would put it slightly above Arcam - 10%? Maybe. ) 2-channel (not live) music: if you got the chance? See first answer above. I am riding the fence on buying a pre/pro...the 990 and the AVP700 are on my shortlist. If the 990 is within 5-10% sound quality above or below an AVR300 I'll should join the 990 club too... But if its 20-25% below, I'll pickup an AVP700 with its static electricty issues etc.... I'm joining the Outlaw club. The 990 is at least the same in some ways but mostly BETTER than the AVR300 - NOT below in any way to MY ears. Regarding the AVR700 - If I recall correctly - the AVP700 is SIGNIFICANTLY more money and should NOT be in the same league or else someone is getting ripped off. A forum member on Outlaw participated in a blind test with 9 people and the AV8 (NOW THE AV9) was rated by all to be 20-25% better than 990 - BUT at 5 times the cost (DOUBLE EDIT: JUST CHECKED the blind test thread - it was the Arcam AV8 - replaced now by the AV9 pre which is 5749.00!!!). For me, 75% of the quality for 20% of the cost is a no brainer - I'll take the 75% and pocket the $4k difference. Thanks Vince 03/15/06 - note the change I made to my last comment. I looked back at the Outlaw forum blind test post and the Arcam used in the blind test I referenced was the Arcam AV8 pre (not the AVR700) - MUCH more money than the AVP700. It was this $5000.00 AV8 that they thought was 20-25% better. Interestingly - they DID compare the AVR300 to the Pre Procs used (Outlaw, Anthem, and NAD) and the Outlaw was better than the AVR300 to their ears too. - By a similar amount to what I noted. AVR300 is still a great product - but the Outlaw wins for ME.PS - The friend who was also present during my shootout - just emailed me - "angry" because he was perfectly happy with his Denon UNTIL he heard the Outlaws - now he's ordering too.....[6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Mark, Isn't that what friends are for??? [] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Mark, Isn't that what friends are for??? [] Bill Hey Bill!Oh Yeah...of course, this is the same guy who bought Cornwalls - after hearing mine(now meagins)...I'm such a bad influence[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince32837 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Mark, Another big plus the 990 is that its backed by Outlaw Customer Service for 5 years. You have any problems with unit, they will have it fixed inside of 2 weeks! or send you a new one! Arcam probably take 2 months??? Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I've just got an Outlaw 990 and agree with Mark's assessment. Terrific features, well built. Got a good price on a used one with 4 years left on its warranty. BTW my old Denon AVR-3200 sounded mighty good too. Just a might long in the tooth, and I needed some additional optical connections along with balanced outputs. If you are looking for a well built, budget receiver...the Denon is not a bad choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 To put this into perspective, how much of a difference would I notice running the Outlaw system vs. a Pioneer Elite 54 TX receiver to power the Klipsch Ultra THX II 7.2 setup. Will I hear more base? What else? I am intrigued by the Outlaw -- just don't understand the benefits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachuckster Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 KDE; I have never personally used a Pioneer. I am sure their "Elite" receivers are quite good, but when you start to compare a receiver vs. seperates, usually the seperates are going ot win. I have had the Outlaw 990 & 7700 combo (the 7700 amp is rated at 200 watts x 7 continuously, weighs about 95 pounds, and has balanced inputs) driving Klipsch RF7 mains, a RC7 centre, and RS7 surrounds. With the 7700 amp, the setup is loud but very, very clean. I replaced a Denon 3803 and while that receiver did well, the 990 and 7700 combo sounds much better. This combo costs around $2700 brand new I believe, so you could save yourself about a grand by going with the 7125. My personal review on the 990/7700 is movies sound absolutely spectacular, and music is (CDs) is terrific. The RF7s (which have a sensitivity rating of 104 db if I remember correctly) really crank out loud, with minimal audible distortion. The RF7s almost seem to say "is that all the power you can give me?" I would agree with the original post of this thread regarding the "review" of the 990 and 7125 combo. But the 7700 amp is heavier, meatier, louder and cleaner than the 7125. Plus it has the balanced inputs (and the 990 has balanced outputs). Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 KDE; I have never personally used a Pioneer. I am sure their "Elite" receivers are quite good, but when you start to compare a receiver vs. seperates, usually the seperates are going ot win. I agree as long as the separates are quality. I have a 990/7500 running one of my systems for 2 yrs & i'm very pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Too throw in my 2 cents.......... I noticed on the Outlaw site, special combo deals that look great. The price of their Separates (7075) was the same as getting their receiver.............duh.... I love their web site, its layout and simple ordering process. Finally you can say "Made in the USA" for a final clincher to any deal! Listed on their web site. 990/7700 990 Prepare/7700 Pwr Amp $2898.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 many times they will have "B" stock sales too with full warranty...they also have a nice Forum...the saloon...gonk over there is an answering machine... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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