Woa ... direction of interconnects DOES matter! [...? or does it?!]

[m8o]

In reasearching my mishmosh of interconnects I'm using connecting my processor to my 5-ch amp, I discovered 4 of them were facing the wrong direction from how the manufacturer recommends the signal path to flow. (that's what I get for being impatient in wanting to plug in the Butler 5150 asap to hear it!) ... hey, it's all AC I figure. Well how wrong was I!

You see the one channel I had right was the center. It just so happens also, that though I'm running much more efficient horns for left, right and the two rears, and only my M&K S150THX for the center as I don't have room for another La Scala or Heresy under the 50" TV -- and though the M&K level was actually set a tad under the la Scalas and Heresys to the ears with the pink noise -- the centers were unexplainably more predominent in the room in an unbalanced sort of way. [*-)]

Well, now that the cables are facing the right way, there's quite a bit more effortlessness to the left and right La Scalas and rear Heresys. What I'd say is the dynamics are greatly increased across the range. It's not "brighter" (i.e. doesn't have only more treble), but rather more liveliness and depth; I guess that's dynamic range. And the center is just a tad under the level of the left and right; the way I like it.

[SteelerFan]

Well I don't believe I would hear the difference, but I'll not argue. Hope you enjoy your new Butler amp.[]

[PrestonTom]

With all due respect, you have got to be kidding.

Perhaps you did hear some difference. Perhaps there was a better connection after you unattached & reattached the connectors.

Seriously, Do you think the electrons ( and the copper) "know" the difference?

Good luck,

-Tom

[RTTR]

This thread actaully made me laugh, I'm with Tom.

[dkp]

I have heard this very same problem a number of times in the past. Unfortunately, you now need to purchase a shrink wrapper. It sounds a bit corny at first, but hear me out as there is some science behind it.

When the interconnects are connected backwards, that is, when the signal is flowing the wrong direction inside the interconnects, the electrons get all backed up inside and actually swell the "wrapper" around the wire causing it to loosen up significantly and further degrade the sound. Due to the high cost of many of the high-end interconnects in the marketplace today there has been quite extensive research done on how to get the "wrapper" tightened back up, rather than simply replacing the damaged interconnects. Hence, the introduction of the "shrink wrapper."

The name may seem a bit novice, but those needing the product did, in fact, have a directional arrow on the interconnect which plainly states the proper installation procedure. Incidently, some interconnects require that the source end be connected first. But I digress...

Unfortunately, I cannot locate the company that is currently producing the latest shrink wrapper. I'm sure someone will chime in with the name. Hope this helps...

David

[ancientdude]

Believe it or not,

according to quantum physics and mechanics, light rays always take the shortest route even before arriving at a location.

An experiment was done with protons of light and a slit in a paper, one on the top and one on the bottom and the proton made a zig-zag line,

then many slits were placed in the paper and they did a more compacted zig-zag...

even Einstein's relativity theory shows that light comes the shortest route from any star, regardless of what impedes it.

Its a mystery and perhaps a difference was noticed... you can only speculate, but one thing is for certain: there is more than we know.

[m8o]

I'll take the abuse. Like I said, I first figured "it's AC right?"; I was as skeptical as all you. I guess I have to put it back and forth more then once then to decide if I need the dunce cap or not. [^o)]

[m8o]

Follow-up... (perhaps I'm a gluten for punishment in some of your eyes)

Laugh all you want ... after a few hours of critical listening mostly at low levels, to mostly electonic based music (both with a beat and without) there's no longer any question in my mind whether there was a true benefit or not. I'm hearing the 'buzz' associated with synthisizers (sic) in electronica as it should be, with a great deal of attack; having distinct silence interleaved with sound during heavy hi-frequency modulation enveloping the notes, where I wasn't getting it at low levels before. And the 'pulling' effect you get in your ears when the mixing engineer works with the phase of the music is now readily apparent. I'd say the directionality of the interconnects has its greatest effect on the phase of the music across the frequencly spectrum. It's like turning up the sharpness on your TV image from 25% before to 75% now (I don't expect to be @ 100% until I replace the Onkyo 939 I'm using as a preamp/processor). In addition, I had to turn the bass down from +2 to 0 (I had had mid-bass and treble @ 0 before and they remain there now). It's really going to be hard to turn this off and go to sleep!

FYI, I've never read a single word about cables or cable directionality to sway my thinking. Further, I've probably been the most skeptical here about interconnect in general for years; I've bought good cables ranging from $40 - $125 per 1meter pair, but never really knew if I was throwing my money away, and wouldn't think twice about putting a cheap RCA cable in the signal path if I didn't have better interconnect free @ the moment. Well all this is a relief and reassurance at least to me regarding money well spent; and I at least won't be ignoring the directionality of interconnects.

edit: interesting how everyone can also ignore my statement regarding center to front&surround balance. For about a week I was very puzzled at how I could tune the La Scalas and Heresys to a noticably louder level with pink noise then the M&K centers, yet the non-horn M&K centers still ruled the roost. I just figured it was that the centers just had more program material, or music had more mono content in it then not when listening to MusicChoice through digital cable. Today I find that was the only interconnect facing the correct direction. I flip the others and the tables have turned; it's almost as if I have the centers turned off.

...I have a Terrasonde ATB-3. I just have to get off my lazy procrastinating tail to see if I can quantify this too with measurements.

[PrestonTom]

m8o,

We are not laughing at you. Maybe we are laughing at the situation.

Really there is no difference due to the direction of the interconnects, plain & simple. There may have been some other things that got "jiggered" around when you did this. Who knows what...

I am bringing this up, since I hate to see people send money on dubious devices and snake oil. There are things one can do to improve the sound, but "directional" interconnects are NOT on the list. It bothers me that money grubbing manufacturers are tricking the unaware into things like: expensive speaker cable; cryogenically treated anything, etc. That kind of exploitation really bothers me.

Good luck,

-Tom

[JeffDurbin]

Actually, I need to be perfectly candid and admit that I am laughing at him.

[Invidiosulus]

So how many of you naysayers have taken directional interconnects(I still call em patch cables) and plugged them in the wrong direction to see what it sounds like?

I have a set of cables that I use with my turntable that I'll try switching out later tonight to see if I can tell a difference.In the mean time feel free to laugh all you want.

[m8o]

Again, knock yourself out. I speak from pragmatically backing into the whole thing accidentally and have no concern from your understandably unyielding viewpoint. I guess I speak to those open to new ideas. The absurdity of the very idea (to me as well) has spurred me to research it. I repost this from AudioQuest's website:

Important Cable Facts

Directionality: All cables are directional, from hardware store electrical cable to the finest pure silver cables. All AudioQuest cables are marked for direction. With other cables it might be necessary to simply listen to the cables in one direction and then the other. The difference will be clear-in the correct direction the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. While cable directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal is not symmetrical, providing a physical explanation for the existence of directionality.

Running-In: As with all audio components, audio cables require an adjustment period. This is often mistakenly referred to as break-in. However, break-in is properly used to describe a mechanical change-engines break-in, loudspeaker and phono cartridge suspensions breakin. A cables performance takes time to optimize because of the way a dielectric behaves (the way the insulating material absorbs and releases energy), changes in the presence of a charge. Cables will continue to improve in sound or picture quality over a period of several weeks. This is the same reason amplifiers, preamplifiers and CD players also require an adjustment period. The key difference between adjusting and breaking-in is that things dont un-break-in, however, electrical components do unadjust. Several weeks of disuse will return a cable to nearly its original state.

The run-in time is essentially the same for all cables. However, the apparent need for run-in varies

wildly. As with amplifiers and other components, the better the cable, the less distortion it has, and therefore the less there is to cover up the obnoxious distortion caused by being new. Since human perception is more aware of the existence of a distortion than the quantity, the better the cable, the worse in some ways it will sound when new, because the anemic forced two-dimensional effect resulting from being new will not be ameliorated by other gentler distortions. Please be patient when first listening to any superior product.

If I didn't experience a notable difference flipping the cable, a) I wouldn't believe it, I wouldn't ever even be reading this above because of, see "a". Additionally I have to ask myself, what do they gain from making that public statement if there isn't truth behind it? I can't come up with anything. They'd sell the same amount of cables if it had or did not have a directionality arrow on it (Monster has it too) ... so why make this statement for the world to read? I don't need convincing.

Btw, I have to also ask myself if I had a 'lesser' amp then I finally have now and less sensitive speakers, if I would have ever noticed the difference... Consider that if you will.

[JeffDurbin]

Yeah but AudioQuest is one of the worst purveyers of 'snake oil' - correction, 'high-end' interconnects and speaker wire - and so you would expect them to spew that dribble.

[m8o]

Name an interconnect you respect then? I can't research more today as I really have to close this down and work, but my quest to read up on this subject will go on and I will do so on published material from interconnect companies you respect as well. []

edit: but again, I don't see how they sell more cables by having a directionality arrow on it. Why would AudioQuest, Monster Cable, and I'll imagine a good few more though I have to search to be sure -- say it?

[T2K]

It sounds like the results that you have found were discovered by actual hands on experience.

Others laugh at you and tell you that you are wrong without listing their experiences that prove that you are wrong.

Me, I'm laughing at the idiots that seem to know things without personal experience. They are the REAL suckers.

Keith

[jerohm]

But then again any improvement MIGHT be just due to making a BETTER connection than before - rubbing off any accumulated oxidation. It seems to me the simplest possibility is usually the most likely...

[ccsakura]

It's true that electron could only flow one way. My guess is that you have different polarity connection on one speaker with the other? If it's the case, the phase cancellation would make a difference by then. Everything follow the same signal direction(color of interconnect) will no longer out of phase of each other and cancel the sonic output and you will really have better sound quality after correcting phases.

Or it could be due to the connecting surface which was explained above. Interconnect loose overtime and decrease the contacting surfance area or scrap off the oxide while you unplug/plug it in again

Just my 2cents and wild guess []

[T2K]

Maybe I misunderstood him. I thought he stated that he had installed the things backwards.

It would seem that the connectors at either end would be of equal tightness. Why would the connection be better/tighter reversed ?

It seems that the first removal/installation would have 'cleaned' the connections sufficiently, unless there is some 'law' stating otherwise.

I think a good argument calls for personal experience revealing results that differ from those of the poster. Otherwise one would just be arguing BS against finding of fact, it seems.

Keith

[m8o]

All good thoughts. Though the original connections were just made about a week prior with cables taken from other equipment that had been sitting a long long time and no changes were made to phase.

Also a thought. These interconnects only have their shield grounded on one side. It's supposed to be grounded on the driver side of the signal source. Perhaps the ever so slight "muddleddedness" of the signal is introduced by having the shield connected from the other receiving end of the signal path instead of the source side? Why [if even]? I imagine I'd have to go to the library for that one as opposed to finding in-depth knowledge about transmission line theory on the Internet...

[chops]

I used to beleive that cable was directional as well, but after doing many tests on my own (just by switching them 180* and listening) I realised that there really isn't any difference in the sound, unless like others said that the contacts were oxidized and the fresh connections cleaned them up. But after flipping the wires around several times, both ICs and speaker cables, there were no audible differences.

Here's a little blip from Audio Engineering Society's site about this subject...

"Our April meeting featured a presentation by Steve Lampen, Technology

Specialist/Multimedia Products with Belden Wire & Cable, titled "The

Truth About Audio and Other Cables."

Steve started by making a distinction between things we can measure in

wire (resistance, capacitance, inductance), and those things we can't

measure (soundstage, "detail", "directionality", and other things you

can "hear"). There is rarely a correlation between what you can measure

and what you can hear.

Directionality, or the idea that electricity flows better in one

direction through a cable than the other, is a common concept among

certain self-identified audiophiles. Belden did a double-blind test for

cable directionality in conjunction with an audiophile magazine. The

end result was perfectly random. Belden is still happy to manufacture

and sell directional cables to enthusiasts. They make up a long length

of cable, cut it in segments, identify the ends of the segments so they

know how it came off the spool (length A->B, length B->C, length C->D,

etc), and then let the customer identify by careful listening which

direction is "better". Over thousands of cables sold, the chosen "best"

signal flow is random, for segments cut from the same spool!"

Now there are some ICs and speaker cables that are indeed directional like Transparent Audio, MIT and others that actually have electrical circuits built right onto the cables in little boxes on one end of the cables. If you connect these backwards, you CAN hear a difference, but only because of the added circuitry involved, not the wire itself.

Also, I think that it might be possible to hear a difference with single-ended sheilded cables, but I don't think it will be leaps and bounds different.

Just my 2 pennies. []