Kriton Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 OK, I am in the final stages of finishing my first refurb project of Heresy I's. Learning alot, rather tedious, but there it is... The cabinet is coming along and I will post some picts later tonight... My question is the crossover, the crossover I have in this thing is an E-2 - I am replacing the double 2uf caps with Audiocap Thetas, and the 33uf bass cap with a Solen. I am still trying to figure out why my pair of 1979 H1's have an E-2 crossover, but that is neither here nor there. First question, since I will be attaching wire to wire (and not wire to some nice little post as the stock caps had), do you all have any particular technique or method that would work better here? Is flux that important in a joint of this type? I plan on finishing out the joints with heat shrink just to cover up the joints, what do you think of this? Putting this thing together wihout a circuit board, makes me appreciate BEC's clean spade connectors and crimped wires. Second question - placement of the caps, is there any particular placement on the stock wood board for the caps? My idea was to place the 2x2uf's actually closer to the terminal strip and the 33uf farthest away (given the size of that particular critter) - this shouldn't be a problem, but I wanted to check. I know that the coils and formers are particularly sensitive to placement given the magnetics and all, but I wanted to check these caps, as they are larger and in a different configuration than stock. Last question, how can I test the old caps to see what, if any, degradation has occured? Can I use just a rat shack multimeter to do this, and what should be the settings and the correct readings for a 2uf and 33uf, or do I need some different kind of tester? I would also like to test the Thetas to see how close they are? Any ideas? Thanks in advance, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Got to go for awhile, but here is part of an answer. You need an meter that would read ESR to know much about the caps. Capacitance will likely be right even when ESR has increased to an amount that effects the sound. Meters that read ESR are quite pricy. Mine costs in the $500.00 range. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Kriton, Congratulations on your project. It looks like you are on the home stretch. Yes, you are correct about the placement issues for the coils (inductors), but this is NOT an issue for the caps. Personally I would not worry about the heat shrink. They are not visible and there should not be an issue about the wires/leads inadvertently touching or shorting. In all likely hood the solder you use will not need to be prepped with flux. It is a good idea to lightly clean the leads before hand. Testing the caps will be a problem. The capacitance can not be measured on a volt meter (only resistance & voltage). This would require a "LCR" meter and these are more expensive. It might be of interest to check if the capacitance values are approximately matched on the new set. For the old set, folks typically are interested in whether the series resistance has "built up" (this is the claim at least). Although, this "resistance" cannot be measured on a volt meter either. So you are out of luck on that one also Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 The leads on the Thetas do not stand up well to abuse. The gold is extremely soft (as gold is), and if you bend them back and forth more than three times they will snap off. So, don't bend the leads where they enter the cap. Never. Reiterating what Tom said, clean all of the leads. I use .0000 steel wool, denatured alcohol, and a cotton ball. Also make sure all of the old solder has been removed from the solder tabs on the autofomer. Place a heat sink (alligator clip) close to where the winding is soldered on, and use desoldering braid to remove the solder at the end of the tab where you will be soldering the new stuff to. When finished, clean it with the alcohol. When I build networks for the speakers where the network sits outside of the cabinet, I often wrap the leads of the caps around the thicker/stronger leads of the inductors (tinned first) -- and then press the the whole deal together with needle-nosed pliers. I then wipe down the joint with alcohol and a Q-tip before I solder. This works good here because the networks aren't going be exposed to a lot of vibration. However your networks will be sitting inside of a cabinet, and be exposed to major vibration. Wires/leads attached to parts and connections that move when exposed to vibration will introduce noise. So, you should absolutely be using solder lugs. Flux: When I first started soldering, I always used flux. It speeds heat transfer, and this is something you will be thankful for until you get the hang of doing it. Since you are new at this, make sure you heat sink all of the parts you are soldering (put a clip on the lead to protect the part from the heat). BTW, do I owe you an email or am I waiting on one from you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriton Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 Solder lugs? You lost me... I got the heat sink, the alcohol and the needlenosed pliers all ready to go... All I was going to do, instead of removing and rewiring everything was snip the stock wires at the caps (except for the woofer cap of course) and bare the stock wire, twist it around the more solid cap wires 3 or 4 times, hold the twist and cap wire together with a small hemostat (which will also steady the joint and hold it off the bench) then flux and fill the twist, followed by heatshrink to cover the joint, leaving all of the solder points on the formers alone - and then hot gluing the caps down to the board... Does this sound like a viable plan??? Edit: OK I see the pictures, but I don't get the lugs..are the lugs those off the board post looking things? I have never seen those before?? And are you using SOLENS there, I thought those were crap man? I spent a butt load more on these Thetas just cause you said... I sent you an e-mail awhile ago about CW2 crossovers, haven't heard from you? K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 LOL, nah Man, those aren't the black evil Solens, those are the white good Solens. Similiar to a Theta, but only straight from Solen in Canada. Ack! I call that a hack job -- but it'll work!! What the heck, just be careful with the leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriton Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 Hack job? You have those weird looking posts with gobs of solder sticking up in the air and you call my idea a hack job, you elitist Canada Solen person you. Harrummppphhhh. And just for clarification, what is the hack part of the job? Using the same old wires, the hot glue (which you favor as I recall!) or the layout?? Shoot I just figured that I would be better off not messing with the former joints that are on there...my luck I would send too much heat through and fry one of the buggers! Give me some better ideas you rump! And you didn't answer me, are those things sticking up the lugs you were referring to? So you think that the wires will vibrate or are you jsut talking about the joints themselves being subject to vibration? No more cryptic responses, I want the scoop here man! K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Kriton, On point that should be made here is the positioning of inductors. Where you place the caps don't mean anything at all, but inductors will couple to each other unless they are kept widely seperated or mounted 90 degrees to each other. Look at the picture Dean posted above. The two coils are mounted with the edge of the small one lined up exactly with the center of the larger one. It's not as critical on a gradual slope filter like these but extremely imporant on more agressive filters. It is common knowledge among filter people that inductors must be kept apart. Mounting them close to each other is looking for major trouble so you avoid doing to unless there is no other choice. coils coupling each other results in very strange results in the response! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Hack job? You have those weird looking posts with gobs of solder sticking up in the air and you call my idea a hack job... Ha Ha. Hey, it takes a long time to build up a pound of solder on those lugs! ...And just for clarification, what is the hack part of the job? Using the same old wires, the hot glue (which you favor as I recall!) or the layout?? Well, yeah. I desolder everything, get rid of all the old solder, and start fresh. Hot melt: Lightly scuff the bottom of the cap with some 220 sandpaper before you apply the glue. After you apply the glue, just drop the cap on the board and straighten it out -- don't press down and squish all the glue out the sides, and don't stick your hand in the stuff -- it's hot. Shoot I just figured that I would be better off not messing with the former joints that are on there...my luck I would send too much heat through and fry one of the buggers! O.K., that's fine, it'll just look like hell. Give me some better ideas you rump! And you didn't answer me, are those things sticking up the lugs you were referring to? Yes, the things sticking up with the screws through them into the board are solder lugs. As far as ideas go, well, all I can do is post pics of my hack jobs -- that might help more. So you think that the wires will vibrate or are you jsut talking about the joints themselves being subject to vibration? Primarily the joints. However, if the wires that you're getting ready to solder to the leads vibrate and move around too much, it stresses the leads where they enter the cap. Now, you could do what a lot of people do: cover the wires close to the joints with hot melt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Hey, Hey. Nice to see that ALK B you made for me as a perty example. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 OCCBD. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Obsessive Compulsive Cap Buying Disorder? Guilty. So, what does it really mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Well, I had "Crossover Builder's" in there, but yours works well also. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Way to go Dean! The first step towards recovery is admitting you have a problem. [] Hey, you know you are not alone, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Does anyone know a source for......A-hum.....gold plated luds? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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