Chipp4 Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Reading through many of the posts, it appears most people are more concerned with HT bass from movies than bass from music. I have an old Velodyne ULD15 and for any movie I have ever watched there is more than enough bass output(sometimes I actually have to turn gain down) but where my bass concerns come up short is with trying to achieve concert volume and impact levels with music. Yes my system gets loud and clean but not true concert volume. System consists of Klipsch Epic CF3 for mains driven by Adcom 555)and Epic CF2's for side and rear surrounds powered by Denon 4800. I see many raves about SVS but which and how many subs would really be needed (I would like to NOT to be able to crank them to max because there to loud). Room is 12x10x18 but in future will be going to 20x10x30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Wow, you've got 2 pair of CF-2's AND a pair of CF-3's? I have a pair of CF-2's that I'm selling to my sister and was looking for a pair of 3's or 4's, and just couldn't find them for a reasonable price. I ended up buying a pair of used Chorus (Stuart) and Chorus II's (West Palm) and like that combination better than with my CF-2's. I also have the SVS 20-39CS w/Samson S700 amp and it can deliver some serious bass. I will eventually get the 2nd sub when I can afford it. I see you're in Ocala which isn't too far from where I live (75 mi?). You can drop by and hear my system if you like and I would love to hear what yours sounds like as well. This way I'll know what I'm missing with the whole Epic HT... Mike ------------------ Family Room ----------- Hitachi 43UWX10B HDTV (16:9) Denon AVR-4800 Acurus A200X3 Panasonic DVD-RP91K (Progressive Scan & DVD-Audio) Dual CS-5000 Turntable w/Shure V15V-MR DBX 3bx Series III Range Expander Mains - Chorus II (Oiled Oak/Acurus Amp) Center - KLF-C7 (Finished Black/Acurus Amp) Surrounds - Chorus I's (Finished Black/Denon) Surround Back - RS-3's (White/Denon) SVS 20-39CS Sub w/Samson S700 Amp Monster HTS-3500 Line Conditioner Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 Digital Cable box Monster M-500 Component Video cables Monster Datalink 100 Digital Coaxial cables Radio Shack Gold Series & AR for all other audio interconnects Bedroom ------- Mitsubishi 31" TV Yamaha M-4 Amp Yamaha C-4 Preamp Yamaha T-7 Tuner Teac DVD Player Dual CS-721 Turntable w/B&O MMC2 Looking for a pair of Cherry or Mahogany Heresy's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipp4 Posted November 2, 2001 Author Share Posted November 2, 2001 What a small world. I see you also have a Denon 4800 and a Hitachi TV. I have the Hitachi 60" 4:3 HDTV (wish I waited to get 16:9). Believe it or not I used to have a pair of Klipsch Chorus speakers. How do the Chorus II's sound compaired to Chorus? I also had Cornwalls which actually I liked better than Chorus (smoother sound)I never really compared sound of Cornwalls to CF3's when I bought them at 50% off from Sound Advice (I think maybe the Cornwalls sounded alittle better than CF3's also). I have seen many people on this forum speaking very highly of SVS subs but the thing they alway say is sound for the price (which makes me think a Velodyne HGS18 would be much better or maybe the new RSW15 from Klipsch?) It would be fun to check out each others systems (I don't know anyone who has systems like ours or better). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 No dont go with the Velodynes,the SVS Ultra is a much better choice.It uses no limitators like the Velo(and almost all subs)and gives you a kind of fast punch that is rare to find(hear) from so many subs.The Velodynes are great(why do you think I now have a HGS18?)but for music there are better choices(SVS,HSU,M&K,Aerial,Revel). Even if I had an argument with TV just hours ago I still would recomend the SVS Ultra over other subs for HT and music. Unless you want to spend way more and end up with dual Aerial Acoustics SW12's(not inexpensive,but awesome). You can always start with one Ultra unit and add more if you expand the system,want even more clean output. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 Cornwall front Cornwall rear Academy center Rockford fosgate dual 10 inch sub Pyramid (bridged) amp for sub Sony STRDE 825 H/T reciever APEX DVD Harman Kardon CD player I love it Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipp4 Posted November 2, 2001 Author Share Posted November 2, 2001 The Ear, I have seen some of your arguments with TV. LOL The SVS Ultra looked appealing with the Crown amp. I thought maybe 4 Ultras running off the Crown would get where I want to be. And I did lots of research on the K series Crowns to see if they would also be good for running Klipsch Epics series as well but looks like mixed reviews on that. Most people think pro amps sound harsh in HT setups. I have seen you recommend the Brystons alot but they tend to be very expensive for 200w/ch or more. Whatever amps I went with I would prefer to have all match up (not Crown for subs and something else for mids and highs). It looks like Adcom 5802 gets good reviews and you can purchase for less the $1500? And how come you don't get rid of your HGS18 and get SVS Ultras? Jim, I had and Academy too it was a good sounding center channel but I traded it when I got the Epic series for a KV4 which was supposed to be a match (really the Academy sounded much better than KV4) I hope those Rockford 10"ers sound better in your house than they did in my truck. I had 2 HX2(in the recommended enclosure size)powered by 400 watts from Orion XTR series amp and was expecting wonders but was disappointed when 1 JL audio 10w6 sound better than 2 of the Rockfords. So I dumped them and got another JL and it sounds pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Chipp4: And how come you don't get rid of your HGS18 and get SVS Ultras? Because he doesn't seem to be strapped for cash, and diversity is always good. i'm sure as well the hgs18 has some advantages over the awesome ultras... ------------------ 'cuz not a lot of people have ever said "Pump up the treble!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Yes the Velodyne HGS18 beats the Ultra in super low bass.The HGS18 can go below 16Hz and the distortion is very low.Name me one sub under 3 grand(single cabinet please)that can outperform the HGS18 is deep bass.Below 16Hz I await the answer And yes I will not buy dozens of units of one model(SVS,Velodyne,Sunfire(even if I have several LOL)or Aerial).I like the diversity. What can I say,diversity is fun.Dont you agree? TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 hgs-18 flat to 12.5hz baby. helps make up for that slowness ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Well said Boa,the HGS18 is AWESOME,a real sub bass sub woofer of sub woofers. 12.5Hz! I did not even test it that low,16Hz is good for me. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 ears, I shoulda included a bibliography LOL. my freq generators only go to 20hz. here's that review I pulled that from for what it's worth: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_4/velodyne-hgs-18-subwoofer.html ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Yeah Boa,this site is great.Plenty of good reviews and some measured specs to give a good general idea. They also have a review of the Sunfire Signature,they were very impressed also. Yep the HGS-18 is a serious piece of woofage. LOL TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipp4 Posted November 5, 2001 Author Share Posted November 5, 2001 BOA I checked out that review link you included on the HGS18 and they had max out of 108dB at 25Hz, I believe the SVS Ultras are rated at 111dB at 25Hz? You guys have me really confused now that everybody is talking good about HGS18 (which originally thats what I was planning to get)but then recommending SVS Ultras??? I once read a review done by Tom Nousane (spelled wrong) and he compared the subs to his Reference sub which he said was 120dB at 20Hz but it did not say what kinda sub this reference was. I tried to research this but never could find answer. Does anyone know? And if so this sub sounds pretty killer? Still nobody has commented on how the new Klipsch RSW15 might fit into this topic? Ears, yes having lots of different brands and types of equipment is fun to tinker with. Just depends on if you are more interested in the drill or the hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 Chip, As you know, the Chorus was the Cornwalls baby brother. I believe they had a problem with tuning the bass on the Chorus and that's why they decided to do the Passive Radiator on the Chorus II's just 3 years later. They also modified the squawker horn (K-61-K versus K-57-K) on the Chorus II's, which is larger at the end of the mouth. I personally like the II's better, which is why I have them as my fronts. They go lower (at louder volumes) and the mids seem less harsh. Don't get me wrong, I liked my CF-2's an awful lot. But I like the mids and the bass better with my Chorus II's. Anyway, if you want to get together some day to check out one anothers systems...give me a shout. And just to stay on topic... do yourself a favor and get the SVS. You won't be disappointed... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 >>>BOA I checked out that review link you included on the HGS18 and they had max out of 108dB at 25Hz, I believe the SVS Ultras are rated at 111dB at 25Hz?<<< It all depends on the test methods used. Don't try to correlate performance collected using one test method to data collected using a different method. I think Tom Nousaine found the HGS15 to hit about 102dBs/25hz. Figure 4 more for the HGS18 I'm guessing. The 20-39cs hit 105.8dB/25hz. The ULTRA has not been measured yet. >>>You guys have me really confused now that everybody is talking good about HGS18 (which originally thats what I was planning to get)but then recommending SVS Ultras???<< If you can afford the HGS18, I doubt you'd be sorry you got it. But for about $700 less(than retail),you could get dual CS_Ultras and a S1000 amp. Down to about 18hz...I think the SVS package would provide about double the clean output. >>>I once read a review done by Tom Nousane (spelled wrong) and he compared the subs to his Reference sub which he said was 120dB at 20Hz but it did not say what kinda sub this reference was. I tried to research this but never could find answer. Does anyone know? And if so this sub sounds pretty killer?<<< It's a DIY IB(infinite baffle). if you goto the soundvision site, you can find all the details I think. >>>Still nobody has commented on how the new Klipsch RSW15 might fit into this topic?<<< The rsw15 should be a real brute too. TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 Yep the RSW15 must be a brute,it takes a brute sub to keep up with the RF-7's. With the RF-7's and a good power amp you can reach over 120dB in room(4-5 meters from speakers)with ease. This is huge output for a home speaker. Few subs can keep up,the Ultras no doubt can keep up! It takes three Sunfires to pound out sub bass to match the RF-7! I have a short list of musical and potent subs for music and HT. SVS Ultra(two units with 250W RMS(per channel)or more amp)PRICE PERFORMANCE KING Aerial Acoustics SW12(big output and unmatched built quality)GREAT BUY FOR AUDIOPHILES Revel Ultima(two subs with the Revel sub amp,monster impact)Very expensive,may be worth the asking price! REL Q200E(the only tiny sub I would use for music) And TV's fave sub the Krell MRS(a real bargain at 30K!Monster 15" ultra long throw drivers with 80lbs magnets,2600W RMS Krell amp and so solid it can serve as a safe later!) TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipp4 Posted November 5, 2001 Author Share Posted November 5, 2001 TV, Now I'm getting the info from the horse's mouth. And I respect your neutrality when commenting on the competion. What do you think of the idea of using 4 SVS Ultras off the Crown? Would this duplicate the live concert arena sound system experience? The Ear, I would never spend the money for the Krell Sub, you could get a half dozen Crown Amps and a dozen SVS Ultras and still have money left over and I would imagine 12 Ultras would pound the heck out of the Krell. Never hearing the new Klipsch RF7 do you think they would be a big improvement over CF3's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 >>>TV, Now I'm getting the info from the horse's mouth. And I respect your neutrality when commenting on the competion. What do you think of the idea of using 4 SVS Ultras off the Crown? Would this duplicate the live concert arena sound system experience?<<< In 6000 cu-ft,optimally placed...you should be able to kill just about any *arena* event. The K series are good amps,great amps really. What you're talking about is 12dB over a single CS_U. Since our standard 20-39cs pretty much matched the HGS15...I'm guessing a CS_U would do the same against a HGS18. So that means the 4 CS_Ultras and single Crown K2(<$5000) would be about equal to 4 HGS18s($12,000) You could also use something like the Mackie M1400 for the amp,save quite a bit of money and be within a dB or two of the max levels a K2 would be capable of. >>>I would never spend the money for the Krell Sub, you could get a half dozen Crown Amps and a dozen SVS Ultras and still have money left over and I would imagine 12 Ultras would pound the heck out of the Krell. <<< I would put up a $2295 dual CS_U/S1000 combo against the krell anyday of the week. TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 Chipp, Do you think I would spend 30K on a single sub? NO WAY Now the RF-7's are great speakers(for the price),with a pair in just about any room you can get the live effect.No sub needed!With a mighty amp that is. You would have to listen and compare,what I find better sounding you may not. Its time Krell lets TN review their MRS,or else I will start to think TV is very right(he may very well be here).I want to see some facts(measured outputs). TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLL Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I hear all you guys talking about all these different brand subs but what do you guys think of definitive subs, especially the definitive PF15tl+. It is said to get very low with its 15" woofer 500 watt RMS 1000 watt peak. Has anybody heard this subwoofer from definitive? If so can you tell me about it joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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