My Top 10 List of Speakers

[PhilMays]

Edwinr,

I have always enjoyed reading your speaker reviews. The Khorn is a creature I have yet to experience, much like your glitches!

How have you been able to listen to so many different speakers?

Phil

[edwinr]

My wife reckons I'm insane, Phil. She may be right. My brother works in the hi-fi industry, and I am good friends with the owner of one of the biggest hi-fi stores in the world. I'm not his biggest customer, but I have spent some money with him over the years... [:S]

[PhilMays]

Do you have any experience with Bozak? I have the oppertunity to purchase a pair. The one review I read was pretty good.

[edwinr]

The review you're talking about is the Stereophile one in 2005. I've heard a lot of good things about Bozak, but sadly, I've never heard them. Rudy Bozak who passed away in 1983 is an enigma. He reminds me a little of Stephen Stamm from Loth-x. Like Stamm, Bozak was fanatical about the drive cone material and both designers spent many a day in the laboratory cooking up a witches brew of chemicals to give their cone material that extra 'zing'. You probably don't know this, but Stamm lost several teeth as a result of the chemicals used in making his unique doping compound.

Anyhow, if you could acquire a pair of the Concert Grands or even the Symphony, I reckon you'd have a unique speaker that would probably sound okay, even by today's standards. There's nothing wrong with the technology. I don't know abut the WAF factor though. You're looking at Klipschorn + sized speakers, but unlike the Klipschorn, they don't slot into corners as easily.

[edwinr]

Here's a pic of the Symphonys...

[edwinr]

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[garyrc]

Philmays,

I assume you are talking about the classic Bozaks of the 1960s and 70s.

My experience with them is that the small ones (really medium size, I guess) are quite good (described below), but the giant ones seem to lack some kind of integration. Two different Concert Grands sounded strange, like the transients were not real.

Here is a rundown on three excellent speaker systems I heard in the same room at the same time:

The small/medium sized Bozak (which consisted of an Infinite Baffle enclosure, a woofer of about 12" as I remember, a cone midrange speaker and two cone tweeters mounted on a strap across the woofer)

vs.

a JBL S8-like system (15" woofer, 375 midrange driver and "wavy" horn-lens and an 075 ring radiator tweeter)

vs.

a c1970 Klipschorn

Bozak: Very "musical" and forgiving, beautiful reproduction of the cello, as heard at audience distance (rather than by the cellist), and very full and beautiful orchestral sound. One of the other listeners pointed out that it was the only one of the three that seemed to capture the wood sound of the cello. In a way, it had the most and deepest bass of the three, amazing, since it was the smallest, with the smallest woofer in an infinite baffle. I say "in a way," because the other two had more impactive bass.

JBL: Startlingly clear! Pristine midrange transients! Perhaps a bit artificial. Very forward. Maybe a bit too much in the very high frequency range, but it sure was fun to listen to.

Klipschorn: The best balanced and most natural, to my ears. Also very clear, effortless, and "free floating," as another listener put it (at a different time).

The latter two had tight, but real, bass, and the Klipschorn had more of it on big climaxes. They were both more forward than the Bozak, and both had more high frequency sparkle. One rather worn out record I took in was rough and distorted sounding on the JBL and the Klipschorn, but the Bozak pardoned it. Really good records were more "live," more exciting, and more fun on the JBL and Klipsch.

It may be a matter of personality. You see which one I ended up with, years later.

[PhilMays]

I am looking at some concert grands on ebay, well bid on and winning. They may go cheap, I'm not sure yet. They are so big and with local pickup that I think I may just give them a shot. They weigh 225 pounds each. Some reviews I found on-line pretty much mirror your points.

One thing about it, you can't get k-horns on the cheap! I may just get those to tinker with.

[smilin]

Continuing the sensitivity theme, the AN-E/Lexus is Audio Note's most efficient design with their largest cabinet (31" x 14" x 10.5", HxWxD) and rated sensitivity of 94dB/W/m. With a frequency response is from 18Hz to 23kHz (-6dB), they appear to not need any band aids like a subwoofer...

18 hz with an 8" driver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHA-----------------------whatajoke, and 30k tooboot[]

[meagain]

Smilin! Where have you been? I just got back to the forum after an absence. Both my computers died and I lost your email. Gave a shoutout but no one sent me your email. Was going to start finding you. What up? We have to hook up. I have your wires or money.

[edwinr]

The Martin Logan Summit is next on my revised Top 10 List. This happens to be my current 2 channel speaker. I've owned this model for about 4 months now. Some may ask why I haven't selected my own loudspeaker as No.1. That would be a good question too. But I said before each of the speakers I selected for the Top 10 are interchangeable depending on the listeners preferences. The Summit is the current top model in the Martin Logan lineup. Each speaker features 2 x 10 inch drivers in the bass module. One fires forward and the other down. Each driver has it's dedicated 200 watt digital amplifier - so that's 400 watts per speaker. The bass module crosses over to the electrostatic panel at 270 Hz.

These speakers are capable of very high spl's if required. But probably even more important to me, is that they excell in the reproduction of the human voice. Soundstaging is magnificent and the imaging is to die for. The Summit reminds me of the Klipschorn in the way both speakers interact with the room. In fact both become PART of the room - more so than many other speakers. Both speakers can be demanding to set up and the Summit. But vis a vis amplifier matching, I have run the Summits with as low as 25 watts per channel. You can run the Klipschorn with low power too, but the Summit and the Klipschorn will reward the considerate owner who feeds their pride and joy with a suitable diet of high quality power.

[edwinr]

The next speaker on my Top 10 List is the Avantgarde Duo. There are some similarities to the Summit in concept. Both speakers feature a bass module wihch then crosses over to other driver(s). In this case the Duo crosses over to a mid and treble spherical horn. The corssover frequencies are set at 170 Hz for the mid horn and 200 Hz for the treble horn. The bass module, like the Summit features 2 x 10 inch driver with an integrated 250 watt amplifier. Specified sensitvity is around 104db, but I've heard the latest version may have sensitivity as high as 107 db! Now amplifier matching is crucial. They may be sensitive, but these speakers are VERY intolerant of poor quality amplification. I've heard some lower powered tube amplifiers on these speakers and the hiss is unbelievable. In fact I'd go as far as to say you might be better off with a very high quality solid state amplifier. But some tube amplifiers aren't that noisy so... suck and see.

Reservations? Yeah, a couple. I don't think the integration between bass module and horns is as seamless as it could be. The Summits do this better. They cost heaps. Their looks suck (my opinion of course). But they DO sound fantastic when set up properly. If you don't mind the money or the looks, buy them if they suit you.

[PhilMays]

Garyrc,

I apologize for not thanking you for your review earlier. Very nice! I am going to let these slide as someone outbid me and if I'm going to spend more than $500 I'll just pony up a little more and get some Lascalas

[jt1stcav]

..."He reminds me a little of Stephen Stamm from Loth-X. Like Stamm, Bozak was fanatical about the drive cone material and both designers spent many a day in the laboratory cooking up a witches brew of chemicals to give their cone material that extra 'zing'. You probably don't know this, but Stamm lost several teeth as a result of the chemicals used in making his unique doping compound."

Well then, maybe that explains the marks on the outer ring on one of the Stamm-designed, Fostex-built tri-coned 6-inchers on my Loth-X Amaze (seen here in action). He was so shaken up from the sheer sound of these single drivers that they rattled the teeth right out of his head and bounced right off the ring, leaving those small indentations!

My bad attempt at humor...[:S]

[edwinr]

Nice pic there, Jim. As you quite correctly point out, the Amaze doesn't use a 'real' Stamm driver - I think it's the least expensive speaker they make. The bigger models use pure Stamm design. And they sound fantastic.

Now moving on to the B&W 802. It was recently upgraded to the 802 D. 'D' stands for diamond and that's what this new tweeter is coated with. The 802D is 3rd from the top of the range. If you have more money than cents you could buy the 801D or the 800D - both of these speakers are very expensive and are, I believe, overly fussy to set up. The 802D is much more room friendly and offers most of the sound that the two bigger models offer. The 802D features 2 x 8 inch bass drivers and a kevlar midrange with the externally mounted synthetic diamond tweeter mentioned earlier. These speakers sound really good. There's not that 'in yer face' presetation you get from other speakers trying to show off. They just sound beautifully integrated. They need a fairly big room and need to be out from the wall otherwise they sound too rich. Amplification is everything with this speakers. SET fancier's needn't apply. While sensitivity is quoted at 91db, they sink down to the low 3 ohms in the midbass. If you guys haven't heard these things, give them a listen one day. You may still prefer the Klipschorns, but it's good to know what other speaker manufacturers are doing...

[edwinr]

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[edwinr]

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[edwinr]

The next speaker in my revised Top 10 List is something very special. Other than the BBC LS 3/5a, these have to be the best bookshelf/stand mounted speakers in the world. They are VERY expensive and are only 8.8 inches x 16.7 inches x 13.8 inches. But they offer an amazing bottom end response and one of the most grain-free upper midrange and trebles you will ever hear from a non electrostatic speaker. At $4,800 a pair, you would want something special for your money. With these you get it. The 8 inch woofer uses technology from the flagship Evidence and as such offer excellent sensitivity for such a small speaker. In small rooms you could drive this thing with lower powered tube amplifiers. Obviously larger rooms need more power - and these babies can handle a lot...

[edwinr]

The Wilson Audio Sophia, is in my view, the best looking speaker they make. The others look awful. Fortunately they all sound pretty good. And they are all fairly easy to drive. The Sophia is a very nice match with the Audio Research VSi55 integrated tube amplifier. Wison Audio go on and on about setup. Everything has to be measured to the nearest fraction of an inch. But the reality is, these speakers sound excellent without such attention to detail. I came close to buying a pair of these. I heard a demo pair in a Mercedes type silver finish. They were stunning to look at. The build quality - I've never seen anything built like that. They're just amazing. The sound was pretty good too. Very cohesive and the mids and treble truly sparkled with detail. It wasn't in your face though like some other speakers. You might ask why are these, or other speakers in this Top 10 List. Well, it's because spending that extra money reaps the kind of sound that lessor speakers can only aspire to. There is so much extra information that you can hear when you compare speakers like these with the typical midrange models we usually end up with. Try and listen to a pair of these if you get a chance...

[edwinr]

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