Jay481985 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Yes the bullet will fall at the same rate. I was thinking more or less long range "sniper" type shooting when I wrote the passage. In that usage I also was thinking straight and the further the bullet travels the more air resistance or wind factor the bullet receives or the less likely it travels in a straight line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I think your other points are right on. Trust is one factor, but if it is the main one, like with the Harrier, thrust is converted from verticle to horizontal in a smooth transition to make a runway immaterial. However, there are compromises made with the airfoil used, which limits top speed in favor of more lift, more forgiving stall charistics, etc. It will take off. Travis Also the harrier is rarely if ever take off truely vertical unless it needs to or is at an airshow. The Harrier has one of the most dangerous track records of any plane out there. Most of the time the harriers take off in a short runway take off which reduces the risk of sucking in its own hot gases. Harriers place the turbine engine in the front middle of the plane with the exhaust gases exiting near the middle of the plane, the exhaust ducts are also movable so it turns them down and enables the harrier to lift off and hover. That is a very simple explaination of how it works. But the problem is hot air when pushed off the ground can leech back into the turbine and cause the plane to lose lift. Cold air is denser than hot air and can expand much more to provide lift, if already super hot air goes back into the turbine there will be no expansion and no lift. Due to this situation the Harrier does not vertically take off as much, also the hot gases are pushing off the ground, its super hot and melts the asfault surface. The new jsf 35 uses a driveshaft that spins a fan in the middle of the plane that runs off the turbine engine that is placed in the traditional rear of the plane. Because of this the plane experiences less of the hot air intake. as with the limit to top speed, I always thought it was due to the smaller single engine placed in the middle? The new JSF can achieve mach 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 A bullet, fired perfectly level to the earth My oh my...I think I see another needed thread... "Since the earth is curved, can you ever REALLY fire a bullet perfectly level to it?" [A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Or does gravity keep the bullet somewhat level to the earth? I would think a reaonable powered bullet would not stay perfectly level with the earth. On the other hand, the earth doesn't curve much over the distance a butllet travels. Now one of those spring loaded bb guns might not either as gravity takes over very quickly. This much thought on a Friday nigh makes my simple minded head hurt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted January 18, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 18, 2008 Or does gravity keep the bullet somewhat level to the earth? I would think a reaonable powered bullet would not stay perfectly level with the earth. On the other hand, the earth doesn't curve much over the distance a butllet travels. Now one of those spring loaded bb guns might not either as gravity takes over very quickly. This much thought on a Friday nigh makes my simple minded head hurt... Gravity takes over the moment the bullet leaves the barrel, whether it is a bb or a 300 Wby Mag, If it is fired level to the ground it drops at the same rate as any object dropped from that same height regardless of the speed it travels. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Or does gravity keep the bullet somewhat level to the earth? I would think a reaonable powered bullet would not stay perfectly level with the earth. On the other hand, the earth doesn't curve much over the distance a butllet travels. Now one of those spring loaded bb guns might not either as gravity takes over very quickly. This much thought on a Friday nigh makes my simple minded head hurt... Gravity takes over the moment the bullet leaves the barrel, whether it is a bb or a 300 Wby Mag, If it is fired level to the ground it drops at the same rate as any object dropped from that same height regardless of the speed it travels. Travis Doh! Didn't I supposedly learn that way back when in high school physics? [:$] But I have no trouble remembering some of the mishaps during some of our experiments like the time we were boiling water to create steam sent through rubber tubing and got the rubber tubing too close to the Bunsen burner. Rubber tubing burns quite well. Also found that our physics / chermistry lab didn''t have a fire extinguisher readily available. Was a small fire so it wasn't too difficult to extinguish. Had one h*** of a time cleaning the rubber tubing residue off of the lab table though.. Naturally it was just my lab partner and a good friend as I had missed class the day we did the experiment. Have no idea what the experiment was really about. Do they even allow alcohol lamps and Bunsen burners in school anymore?. Guess I need to start exercising my gray matter more. Wonder how many other things I've forgotten... not to mention the dain bramage from working for a large corporation for 20+ years or is it from several years of drinking siet doda? So. Somewhat related to Coytee's question, and kind of back on topic though this thread was about the plane on the conveyor taking off... would the curvature of the earth, assuming same elevation, cause a bullet fired horizontally to hit the ground a wee bit (nano seconds?) later than one dropped at precisely the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Been a while. Time to revisit Richard Feynman and the water sprinkler. That's a *REAL* puzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 So. Somewhat related to Coytee's question, and kind of back on topic though this thread was about the plane on the conveyor taking off... would the curvature of the earth, assuming same elevation, cause a bullet fired horizontally to hit the ground a wee bit (nano seconds?) later than one dropped at precisely the same time? no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Or does gravity keep the bullet somewhat level to the earth? I would think a reaonable powered bullet would not stay perfectly level with the earth. On the other hand, the earth doesn't curve much over the distance a butllet travels. Now one of those spring loaded bb guns might not either as gravity takes over very quickly. This much thought on a Friday nigh makes my simple minded head hurt... actually it depends on the type of gun.... a sniper gun or a 50 cal bmg or big boy can reach 1000 + yards. Enclosed is what the curvature of the earth looks like. The Verrazano Narrow Bridge is so large it was the first bridge to take the curvature of the earth into account and mimics the curvature. The Verrazano is also bigger than the golden gate. crap the picture is too big here is the link http://nyc.metblogs.com/archives/images/2006/03/verrazano.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Jay The FBI may come knocking on your door.....your not allowed to take pictures of tunnels and bridges in NYC...it's a terrorist thing...signs everywhere saying no pic's. Max range of an M-16 bullet is 3281 ft. Effective range is somewhere around 200 meters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Especially in an airplane thread...we laugh because we have been spoiled by historically unprecedented freedom and security since say the end of the war of 1812 (rasm frasm brits), alas times have changed and the forrest gump theory of security prevails (suspicious is as suspicious does). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 so man with gun on a belt, man shoots gun, will bullet leave the barrel, please do not look into the barrel to check, bullet does not need lift as plane does, belt must travel at the speed of the bullet in the oppisite direction for bullet to stay in the barrel, if your on the belt, g forces would kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Maybe massive speed conveyor belts should best be left undesigned, perhaps a global anti-conveyor belt arms race treaty is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Jay The FBI may come knocking on your door.....your not allowed to take pictures of tunnels and bridges in NYC...it's a terrorist thing...signs everywhere saying no pic's. Max range of an M-16 bullet is 3281 ft. Effective range is somewhere around 200 meters. So its against the law to take a picture of bridges and tunnels but I guess you they didn't realize how many books, movies, documentaries are taken of the verrazano? ha, and the 100000+ vehicles that travel over it everyday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 All I know is my .223 is flat to a 100 yards. Did you settle the airplane question yet? I say it won't take off. The plane isn't moving at all in relation to the earth. If your car is on a dyno and you are at 100 mph and stick your hand out the window, there is no wind hitting your hand. You have no lift. This has probably already been beat to death... I just wasn't going to read any more after I got to page 5 or 10... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 All I know is my .223 is flat to a 100 yards. Did you settle the airplane question yet? I say it won't take off. The plane isn't moving at all in relation to the earth. If your car is on a dyno and you are at 100 mph and stick your hand out the window, there is no wind hitting your hand. You have no lift. This has probably already been beat to death... I just wasn't going to read any more after I got to page 5 or 10... but the thing is does you hand have a jet engine or propeller to move air? A kite doesn't have lift either but if you add your own wind it does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 The engine only provides thrust to move the plane forward.No lift will be created by the airfoil because the plane isn't moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I'm not sure why I'm even replying marvel but a car on a dyno is different from an aircraft engine. A car transfers the energy from the wheels to the ground, a car needs the ground to go forward. The aircraft engine acts on the air and has nothing to do with the ground so the dyno analogy does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Marvel, watch out your ignorance is showing...watch the program. As this thread has gone on we've all seen so many "smart" people put in their 2 cents, Any kindergarten pupil could answer this correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 The engine only provides thrust to move the plane forward.No lift will be created by the airfoil because the plane isn't moving. how does it provide thrust? by moving air, which in hence moves over the wings as most airplanes have their jets on the wing or near enough that air passes under and over their wings particularly at different pressures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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