33klfan Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I heard that you hear a big difference in tube sound when you play records but i was wondering how tubes differ from SS with cd's. I mainly listen to cd's. That's why i wondered. I'm assuming you should hear the tube sound with any source but that's why i am curious here, because i don't know that for sure. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Tubes liquify and add atmosphere to the sound regardless of the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted November 26, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 26, 2006 Oh goodie, this is going to be a great thread. Not the normal Tube vs. SS thread, but throw in the other LP vs. digital debate and we are going to have a real barn burner here. Putting the two together is really going to put a spin on things. I think I will run run to the fridge grab a bunch of refreshments and sit back and watch the excitement. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Well, there are alot of folks whose opinion I value who really love vinyl. That's o.k. I listened to a forum members vinyl rig that was very nice a few weeks ago. The convenience of CD's works o.k. for me. I'm not planning to go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 My favorite kind of thread - I hope to read new ideas and learn something. I have thought about the SS/tube and CD/LP question within the framework of Heritage Klipsch through the years as I made equipment choices. Result is LP - tube(SET) - LaScala. One might reasonably wonder if the effectiveness of matching different sources (LP / CD) with different amplification (tube / SS) to big horns might be based in part on their sequence in history. For example, the big Heritage were introduced back in the days of tubes, so whatever attributes one might think are specific to tubes vs SS, maybe the big horns were engineered with those attributes in mind. The result might be that the big horns sound best with tubes because they were made for them? Likewise, the LP was introduce back in the days of tubes, so whatever attributes one might think are specific to LP vs CD, maybe the LPs were engineered with those attributes in mind. The result might be that the LPs sound best with tubes because they were made for them? If all this makes sense, one might initially expect that the best sound would be a big horn - tube amp - LP system. I doubt most designing CD players and SS amps are engineering their product to be mated with 50 year old big horn designs. Having said this, there is another thing to consider - the music! The invention of the electric bass guitar came after the introduction of the big Heritage, the tube amp, and the LP. As the development of popular music included more electric bass, and then electronic synth music, as well as a general experimentation with louder recording techniches and louder music performance in general... I think the ability of the 'classic' equipment to reproduce the new music became more challenging, depending on how loud one wants to listen. The introduction of subwoofers is an indication of this. For those of us that desire detail, resolution, and refinement in their music more than full concert SPL with full frequency spectrum fidelity the old gear works very well. For those seeking to reproduce concert level experience, they may require SS and subs and CDs. Everyone needs to be honest with themselves and decide how they like their music, then seek the equipment that delivers what they want (and then figure out how to pay for it!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwhaples Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Can't help,I only spin vinyl. Will be interesting to see what others say. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPM Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Wow! What a can of worms... okay, I'll throw in my .02 worth. I don't think, nor have I ever thought, the debate has been over which transcription sounds better... CD or vinyl, but how much sound quality can one get for the money? Inferior turntables ruined it for vinyl. At the time of CD's introduction, in the early 80s, turntables fell into mainly two categories,: cheap or expensive. Cheap turntables consumed the market and, well, we all know what a cheap turntable sounds like. Most households couldn't, nor wouldn't, even think of owning, or spending the money on a turntable the likes of a Linn Sondek, so the turntables that were capable of truly exploiting the benefits of vinyl were, sadly, limited to the well-healed. Enter the CD player, which cost an average of $120.00 back in 1982, and removed all the fuzz, pops, and ticks that people experienced from their inferior turntables (and poorly cared for records) and, bingo, the digital age was here to stay. Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is that, sure there are some great sounding digital players, regardless of whether one listens to them through tubes or solid state equipment. The Rega Jupiter CD player I own is one such player. Dare I say it is very "analog" sounding. Good engineering is good engineering no matter what the product. Fast forward to today and you'll find that turntables have evolved by leaps and bounds since the early 80s, and even the most inexpensive Pro-Jects, Music Hall's, and Rega's sound as good as the Sondek's did back in the day. It's too bad the industry is too stuck on digital to notice. I am a digitalphile for the sake of convenience. That, and my current system sounds as good as I will ever want it. However, as a purist at heart, and coming from a vinyl background, I know that nothing beats the "SOUND QUALITY" of a properly set-up turntable. Period. JMHO. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 You might consider auditioning a tube - based CD player. There are a number of them out there. See if you can play it in your own system so you can compare the results. I'm not much of an authority on this topic at all, but the one tube CD player I heard play through my speakers just flat out sounded great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 . . Fast forward to today and you'll find that turntables have evolved by leaps and bounds since the early 80s, and even the most inexpensive Pro-Jects, Music Hall's, and Rega's sound as good as the Sondek's did back in the day. Please! Do you really think a $300 all-in Music Hall or Pro-Ject sounds as good as an LP12? I own a couple of the cheap Music Halls and a couple of the medium-priced ones with the bright red chassis--I bought them for the Prop House a couple of years ago. When I got them I played with them for a few days. My conclusion? They are JUNK--especially the tonearm! Jeesh, I would MUCH rather have a cheap bottom of the line Thorens circa 1979!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Oh, it's easy. At the pinnacle of seductive sound reproduction is vinyl played back through all tubes. At the bottom of the pyramid is CDs played back through transistor amplfiiers. md You are not spicific enough, didn't you mean to say that it is Vinyl played back through SET Tubes and horns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 snip Having said this, there is another thing to consider - the music! The invention of the electric bass guitar came after the introduction of the big Heritage, the tube amp, and the LP. snip In 1910 Gibson builds for 20 years the Mando Bass (Acoustic Bass without amplification, 24" scale, 17 frets).In 1933 Paul Tutmarc builds first amplified Bass guitar. The first modern electric guitar was shipped from Kalamazoo, Michigan on May 20,1936. PWK first manufacured the k-horn 10 years later, in 1946! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPM Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Fast forward to today and you'll find that turntables have evolved by leaps and bounds since the early 80s, and even the most inexpensive Pro-Jects, Music Hall's, and Rega's sound as good as the Sondek's did back in the day. Please! Do you really think a $300 all-in Music Hall or Pro-Ject sounds as good as an LP12? I own a couple of the cheap Music Halls and a couple of the medium-priced ones with the bright red chassis--I bought them for the Prop House a couple of years ago. When I got them I played with them for a few days. My conclusion? They are JUNK--especially the tonearm! Jeesh, I would MUCH rather have a cheap bottom of the line Thorens circa 1979!!! I think they sound as good as the early Sondek's, not the current, from the late 90s on, Sondek's, sure. The point is that there are a number of high quality, inexpensive turntables on offer today that were not available back then. I'm sure we can agree on that. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieboy Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Give me an old Thorens 124 or Garrard 301 with an Ortofon or SME and I can make some AMAZING sound through my 300B's and Vintage Atlec's or Klipsch! 1940's and 50's technologly at it's best! Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 A good CD player will beat a crappy TT. A really good TT will beat any CD Player. A decent CD Player playing a well recorded CD will beat a really good TT playing a crappy LP. All being equal, vinyl rules. JMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 "All being equal, vinyl rules." I for one am definitely not going to argue with that statement. However, just for laughs - I am running a combination of analogue and digital at the moment - but the other way around from most. My source is vinyl, my pre-amp is tube and my amp is digtial....just to be a bit different. Right now - works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Tubes liquify and add atmosphere to the sound regardless of the source. Wow, this sounds like something else that imparts a 'vivid sense of plasticity' to reality! [][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 snip Having said this, there is another thing to consider - the music! The invention of the electric bass guitar came after the introduction of the big Heritage, the tube amp, and the LP. snip In 1910 Gibson builds for 20 years the Mando Bass (Acoustic Bass without amplification, 24" scale, 17 frets). In 1933 Paul Tutmarc builds first amplified Bass guitar. The first modern electric guitar was shipped from Kalamazoo, Michigan on May 20,1936. PWK first manufacured the k-horn 10 years later, in 1946! OK, ... I was thinking of the Fender bass and should have said "introduction" instead of "invention"... the popular use of the instrument was what I was trying to say.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 It's all about what works best for the owner of said equipment; I ditched Vinyl many years ago,and I will never go back to vinyl. I am spoiled by CD's and just can't imagine going back to disc jockey days........it doesn't work for me. Vinyl has made great strides with equipment, and overall quaulity of product, but disc's are just easier for me. Plus the big investment needed to get right equipment puts it out of my range, and the range of many other people who might consider a return to vinyl.........it's not how you listen to the music, it's the music that matters, and wheter you listen to Vinyl, or disc's, or tapes or FM, listening to the Music is what matters most, not what you play it on........isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I don't think it's the CD medium that's at fault, it's what engineers and producers have done with it. For all the promise of extended dynamic range, most modern CD's are horribly compressed. To my ears, that's why most well-cared for vinyl exceeds the average CD. There are exceptions to every rule. I have both. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadBabyBoomer Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Oh goodie, this is going to be a great thread. Not the normal Tube vs. SS thread, but throw in the other LP vs. digital debate and we are going to have a real barn burner here. Putting the two together is really going to put a spin on things. I think I will run run to the fridge grab a bunch of refreshments and sit back and watch the excitement. Travis Actually this one is verrrry easy! Vinyl thru Tubes and out the Belles...or K-Horns if you are lucky []...or Jubilees if you are very lucky.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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