Any basement crack repair experts? Or experiences with leaks/water from cracks?

[meagain]

After another hellish leak (rain) into my basement, this morning I popped the drywall off the studs in the suspected area. Low & behold there's a 'patch job' of black stuff about 6' tall and 10" wide (by previous owners who I think ate some bad drugs for all projects). Almost looks like roofing tar & paper mixed in. Or maybe liquid butyl stuff? There are a few 'bubbles' that when I gentle pushed - squirted water at me. Some seam areas dripping, etc. The bottom about 2" off the floor is the main culprit.

I know I have to get this crap off the wall for a proper fix. What I don't know is the best way to repair it. I know the crack has to be cleaned out properly to accept 'something'. I've read about: hydrostatic cement/mortar, the various ugl products designed for this, etc. I also read that one can drill holes for plugs and inject an epoxy type product. Though I love DIY, my gut is telling me to hire a pro as the size of this patch is quite large and I just want this to end. The basement is dug very deep and we have clay soil. Yet I read that often with even hiring a pro, there can be later failure again. Searching around, I can't seem to find one method/material that is preferred. It was leaning to the epoxy injection, but then I read a post on a forum saying "don't do epoxy, it only lasts 6-12 months". This concerns me. The water leak is getting more frequent in that it doesn't take much rain anymore so the crack is going downhill somehow under this faulty patch.

I'm wondering (since I've had no luck so far).... if anyone here has had a pretty hefty basement crack and what has or has not worked for you? Even if I do hire a pro, they might present options to me and I need to be edumacated as to what to avoid/works/etc. ?????? It's a poured foundation. .

[TBrennan]

My kid used to fix those cracks before he got into the boilermakers in Chicago. Sometimes they used big staples to tie the two sides of the crack together before shooting in the jiz.

You ought to talk to several guys who do the fixes for a living. Never trust just one guy, talk to a few and get a feeling for it. Talk to pros, most home handymen are hammer challenged wannabes who don't know their butt from a five-gallon bucket.

[JohnA]

Meagain,

Based on your description, your "problem" is the water. It caused
the support to wash out from under the foundation, causing the first
crack. The force water can build behind a wall is stunning, if it
has no way out. You've got to do something to reduce and release
the water that's down deep behind your wall.

The first thing to do is divert all water that runs toward the house
away so it can't seep between the wall and the soil. Done well,
this may prevent you from having to install a french drain deep along
the foundation, though I'm afraid you will, ultimately. Once you
get the water away, or give it a safe, controlled exit path, it will
not have the pressure to force it into the basement. That will
allow you to pressure grout the "wash-out" under the footing so it has
support and to grout or mortar the crack. This should stop the
continuing damage that is opening the crack even further.

[meagain]

John - Thanks. The gutters were a problem (the racoons mess them up), but my husband went around to anchor them better - tho I am skeptical. I found one of the downspouts flat out blocked and fixed that. I have to double check them when it rains again. There is old terra cotta drain tile somewhere around the house cuz it seems to feed a pit in my utility room, but I'm sure it's broken up, etc. I also have window wells that filled up totally with water during the last crisis (which affected most everyone I know so I didn't feel so bad), but clearly the window wells are also screwed up. I was out there lowering a pump into them in the torrent then the next day, cleaned them out as best I could. Seems there's biggish rock mixed with soil. Couldn't dig down with a trowel to see if theres a drain there as it seems compacted. The thought of having someone dig down around my house 8 feet with some big machine is frightening. Would take me all summer to remove plants, shrubs, ornamental trees, patios, etc. LOL Might as well tear the house down & rebuild it. I'll have to ponder this. It sounds grim every which way and upside down.

[colterphoto1]

John is correct, you can't stop water pressure, it is very intense. The first solution is to divert rainwaters away from the foundation of the house through extended downspouts, relandscaping, french wells etc. Once that water gets to your foundation walls, if it's not properly sealed and with a perimeter drain/sump pump system- that water is coming inside somehow. No interior patch will hold for long.

Good luck, I have a bit of a problem here. The window wells are too low, when it rains really hard, they fill with water- looks like an aquarium outside, of course if eventually leaks inside. This is where I want to put my theatre, but better take care of the h2o problem first.

M

[cmdridq]

Like the others said, get the gutters draining as far away from the crack as possible. The bottom line is that if you want to fix it properly, you should attack it from the outside. If you fill the crack and patch it from the outside, when it rains the water pressure is pushing the patch into the crack so the water can't get through. If you patch the crack on the interior wall of the basement, the water pressure will be able to push through the patch once it reaches a sufficient force.

If you hire pros to do the work, make sure you check their references thoroughly. This is one of those businesses that is saturated with crooks and incompetents. After going through this BS myself, I have decided I do want anymore homes with basements unless I am on the top of a hill. Invariably I end up filling them with junk that I should have pitched in the garbage anyway.

[oldbuckster]

You should have water drain away from house, first.........those other guys are right. Before you go to outside help, dry off walls and try DRY-LOCK, it's like a thick paint you apply to the wall, it is good stuff, seen it work many times. Spent a couple of years as a laborer on new house site, and had to DRY-LOCK many a new home, because of basement water leaks. It is a common problem, gutters help, but must be maintained, and cleaned, sloping dirt, stone, etc. away from house helps ............there are things you can do, at a low cost, if you do the work, that will help stop that problem, and the DRY-LOCK comes in different colors, grey is nice.............give it a try, all you have to lose is alittle money, time, and maybe a leak..............Best of Luck to you..................

[PhilMays]

I hate it for you...no doubt...and the thing you don't want to hear is that interior patches really don't work, and they don't.

I have a house in virginia that was built in 1930 (not where I live now) and the basement leaks....no floods. I had my father come over who is a civil engineer. I asked about interior coatings, etc. He said this.

1. Divert the exterior water (I had bad gutters).

2. Dig down on the outside of the foundation and patch from the outside.

He said anything else will be temporary.

[JJkizak]

Call reputable contractor that you know does it right, get estimate, have him do the

job around entire house, pay contractor, done deal. It's just a matter of money. Or hire

an intirior decorator to route all the cracks as a river/waterfall decoration. This has

possiblities for the man/women that has everything.

JJK

[meagain]

Well, I think no matter how well I divert water away from the house, I'll still have a problem due to this crack. I can't capture all the rain/snow that lands around the house so a hard rain will still get down there. IMO.

I think I'm going to call a company various people are recommending as good as given the size of the patch (6.5 feet) it must be serious. The way I figure, if they dig down outside 8 feet and ruin everything, I'd still need the crack fixed from inside as well. Tho' I don't understand why they can't drill from inside far enough to reach the outside. The other problem is we're snowed under right now so it's difficult to test the gutters. Husband said he went around the house and reattached them better. IDK. But I think I'll be happy if the leak is reduced to a 3 foot wet spot instead of an entire 18 x 31 foot room of wall to wall, glued to the floor, carpet with treadmill, weight rack, cage, furniture, desk, husband's recording gear, etc. Gah! This house has aged me and made me a bitter unattractive woman.

The good news is when the roof leaked and partially caved in, we shored it up so I "think" it'll hold the weight of this snow. :|

[meagain]

JJ - I wish it was just a matter of money. Digging down 8 feet
around the house by ??? 4 foot wide is not possible. Especially with
the bobcat or whatever machine needing room to manuever also. Patios,
Gardens, access, etc. At least I'd like to hold off till we remodel
instead of trashing everything twice.

I'm having a company
come over tomorrow for an estimate and I'll further ask about the drain
tile situation. I know they are there and at least some/all are
working. Perhaps I can add a french drain on this side of the house to augment it. Perhaps this can be only 1.5 feet down and help a bit? IDK. I'll try to post a picture of what I'm up against. If I had lawn up to the house, it would be another story.

[meagain]

To the left of the path (the cobble path I laid by hand that's only 2.5-3' wide), is the house with about 5-6 feet of more garden only not as ridiculously overplanted. I also have a big tree, some shrubs, a Jap maple, etc. that would need to be dug up, moved, stored, soil put back, graded, re-amended, replanted. Course now it's winter so the issue is moot.

[Gilbert]

After another hellish leak (rain) into my basement, this morning I popped the drywall off the studs in the suspected area. Low & behold there's a 'patch job' of black stuff about 6' tall and 10" wide (by previous owners who I think ate some bad drugs for all projects). Almost looks like roofing tar & paper mixed in. Or maybe liquid butyl stuff? There are a few 'bubbles' that when I gentle pushed - squirted water at me. Some seam areas dripping, etc. The bottom about 2" off the floor is the main culprit.

I know I have to get this crap off the wall for a proper fix. What I don't know is the best way to repair it. I know the crack has to be cleaned out properly to accept 'something'. I've read about: hydrostatic cement/mortar, the various ugl products designed for this, etc. I also read that one can drill holes for plugs and inject an epoxy type product. Though I love DIY, my gut is telling me to hire a pro as the size of this patch is quite large and I just want this to end. The basement is dug very deep and we have clay soil. Yet I read that often with even hiring a pro, there can be later failure again. Searching around, I can't seem to find one method/material that is preferred. It was leaning to the epoxy injection, but then I read a post on a forum saying "don't do epoxy, it only lasts 6-12 months". This concerns me. The water leak is getting more frequent in that it doesn't take much rain anymore so the crack is going downhill somehow under this faulty patch.

I'm wondering (since I've had no luck so far).... if anyone here has had a pretty hefty basement crack and what has or has not worked for you? Even if I do hire a pro, they might present options to me and I need to be edumacated as to what to avoid/works/etc. ?????? It's a poured foundation. .

The black crap on your walls is asphaltic mastic. It is commonly used to prevent water intrusion (INTRUSION), meaning it should have been applied to the outside of the wall. It is very effective and good for years and years and year of protection. I've seen it on many old basement type structures, and I've spec'd it on my pedestrian tunnels. The key is proper application.

Placing it on the inside of the wall is an El Cheapo (bandaid) quick fix. Just a waste of money. If you plan on moving in a few years, I would not invest in a proper fix, because of the labor and cost. I would recommend doing something along the lines of what Micheal and others suggested, which is to divert the water away from the house. BUT NOTE, this is not a cure-all solution. Especially if the water table (natural seasonal water level) in your area fluctuates significantly or is relatively high.

If you plan on keeping the house, then the repair will be costly. Tell me how many feet of wall needs to be repaired and how deep it is, and I can get you an estimate from the Means Catalog. A proper repair will requiring excavation around the perimeter so that the outside of the wall can be exposed. Once exposed, a good contractor can clean it and properly apply the asphaltic mastic the way it is intended to be used. At that time, you can also install a french drain system to evacuate moisture buildup against the wall. For severe conditions, like at my brother in laws, who has a river less than 100ft from his back yard, there is a product that uses bentonite impregnated sheathing. That stuff is high dollar, but guarantees no leaks for the rest of your life. I have designed a couple of tunnels at some hospitals that use both asphaltic mastic compound, and the bentonite sheathing. One of the tunnels extends beneath a heavily traveled boulevard and is subjected to constant traffic, no problems to date.

[Jeff Matthews]

This is a vertical crack? If so, you'd be surprised at how quick a laborer can dig an 8' deep hole. I don't see why this is being contemplated in terms of backhoes and bulldozers.

[frankphess]

I too have similar problems with my basement. While this will not prevent the water from coming in, one thing I did while remodeling was to install a subfloor in the "finished" room. "Dri-core" panels are 2'x2' wood panels with a plastic bottom which fit together and are very easy to install, and can be purchased at Menards or Home Depot. This will elevate your floor by 2" and keep your carpet dry when seepage occurs. You can then just pull your carpet back, wetvac up the seepage and your carpet stays dry. I would also suggest buying indoor/outdoor carpeting for the basement, it comes with padding attached and is mold and mildew resistant. Also a dehumidifier will help your basement dry faster too. Below is a link to the dri-core website.

http://www.dricore.com/en/eindex.htm

[meagain]

Gilbert, the crack runs down to about 1" from the floor so.... From ground level to the bottom of crack is about 7-7.5 feet. I know there's a crack on the outside somewhere that extends way up which I'm sure wasn't fixed properly either. I'm going outside to confirm they are the same crack. Yep. Crack on outside extends from bottom of window corner all the way down to basement window corner where I can see the inside basement patch starting. So the whole house is cracked (a lannon stone type exterior). The outside above ground crack appears sealed. Yipes. I guess I can deal with excavation in that area (tho Jeff, it's not a matter of digging down 7 feet, it's a matter of width, where to put soil, etc).... But if I do have a drain tile issue, wouldn't it be financially and logistically prudent to do the whole 50 foot section of house at one time? The back of the house is on a slab so I guess I'm ok there.

The company is coming over tomorrow to look at it & give an estimate.

I mean, are you all saying that fixing the inside crack via injection, etc. is a waste of money if I don't do the outside at the same time? I'm sort of not seeing it. I can't do the outside now. IDK why they can't access the outside THROUGH the inside. You know? Just drill all the way through a bunch of times and inject the heck out of that then work backwards towards the inside?

So basically the crack below soil level is 7.5' tall. Very vertical. I'd say the max width is ?? 10 inches.

[Jeff Matthews]

You're not saying you have a crack, the opening width of which is 10 inches? If you did, that's not a crack, that's a door!

I'm with you on the "do it from the inside" approach. Clear up the description of the crack, please.

[picky]

WATER ALWAYS WINS!

I am convinced that the only way to permanently fix a leaky basement is to start from the outside and work your way in. Otherwise, you may stop the leaks on the inside, but the cinderblock is still becoming saturated with water and it's continuing to be destroyed!

The Outside:

Three of our four basement wals leaked when we moved into our house in 1979. Every time it rained, a steady trickle of water came out from under the drywall and over to the floor drains. We quickly tired of this and called a basement water-proffing company. They dug all 3 walls from the outside down to just below the foundation. They replaced all of the terra cotta drain tiles and disconnected our downspouts from the system. All of our cinder blocks were straight so they tuck-pointed all of the missing mortar with hydraulic cement and applied a heavy coat of water-proofing compound onto which they stick a waterproof membrane. Over than they placed styrofoam sheeting to protect the membrane from punctures during the back-fill process. The back-filled with pea gravel first, then sand, then a mixture of clay and clean fill dirt. They ran out down spouts to empty at least six feet away from our house. After allowing everything to settle for two weeks, they returned and layed new sod in the appropriate areas. They charged use by the running foot and we paid about $3,500 back in the 80's. They did an great job. It's been over 20 years and not one leak.

The Inside:

Years later, we decided to build a theater in our basement. When we demo'd the basement drywall, we found lots of damaged mortar on the inside of the cinderblock from years of leakage, which had been stopped by the work noted in the paragraph above. We cleaned the walls up with bleach to kill any mold and mildew an then cleaned all of the loose mortarout of the cracks. An example of the holes we found is shown below. I re-pointed the mortar where the gaps were of normal side. Any place there was an actual "hole" or wide crack, I inserted hydraulic cement. The walls were then coated with 2 to 3 coats of UGL Dryloc. The walls almost looked new when we were finshed and still no leaks!

You can find more information and photos on our web site: http://www.smallhouseweb.com/. Just click on "Theater Construction" and check out page #2. Best of luck! -Glenn

One of the holes I had to deal with....

[meagain]

You're not saying you have a crack, the opening width of which is 10 inches? If you did, that's not a crack, that's a door!

I'm with you on the "do it from the inside" approach. Clear up the description of the crack, please.

Jeff - there's a patch over everything by the previous owners. But beyond the patch ends, I see about 2" of exposed crack at the bottom top. I'm saying the width of WALL the crack is involved in is about 1 foot. A bit off from 100% vertical.

What is going on under the patch? No clue. There are some bubbles protruding that have since deflated (a bit) as the water table went down. When gently prodded, they squirted and oozed. I SUSPECT they didn't fill the crack but merely put a skin over it. The visible cracks are thin cracks, but those are the top/bottom ends. If I try to remove the bubble areas, the crack might be 1/4" or 3" wide. No clue. I sort of fear this patch will cost me more money as they might have to fully remove it to get something else to stick. It's going to be 34 degrees today & tomorrow so I think this 4-5" of snow will melt. Even if below freezing, the ground won't be. My gut says if I try to poke around in there - I'll be releasing the floodgates. So basically I've no clue exactly what's going on under the patch.

[meagain]

Picky - Wow. That's a serious hole. I bet I have something like that under the patch. I'll check out that link. I just remembered something. As I was observing the trickle, I noticed at the floor area.... silt. Yep. Grit, silt, soil whatever you call it. I guess that makes sense, but this adds more to my feeling that this is pretty big.

Actually - I'm confused about how they designed the framing for the drywall over the poured foundation. They used 2x2 but they are pulled out. The sill plate? is a horiz. 2x4 behind which here & there is another 2x4 piece. Hence the framing sticks out as if 2x4 framing was used. The only thing I could think of is they didn't want the 2x2 framing to touch the foundation (and possibly get wet?). I'm not sure what people tend to use to frame their basement walls. However, due to the design - I was able to see the entire run of wall with a flashlight. The walls look pristine and there is no wetness anywhere else but the one patch area. So I "think" the rest of it is ok.

You know..... I wonder if there's a way they can send a camera through our drain tile system to spot breaks/skews. I know they can do that with sewage drains.