WAF & Church Committees

[Woodog]

This is a picture of the inside of my church. There used to be just two Heresys, then a pair of Cornwalls and a pair of Heresys, then I got a pair of Cornwals for my home, then I got Klipschorns and the 2nd pair of Cornwalls went to the church, the Heresys went to a friend. At any rate, I own the speakers and much of the amplification, but just 'store' them at the church - and use them for a P.A., of course.

Today I had invited whoever wished to show up early to listen to the live broadcast of lessons and carols from Kings College, Cambridge. There were about ten of us there. Glorious.

Afterwards a lady on the 'aesthetics' committee approached me and wondered how we might 'hide' the speakers. They were awfully imposing on the lines of the room, she said.

I don't think you can hide them, I said.

She continued... what about getting some of those small speakers to put in the corners, up high where people can't see them?

No. That's what I think of that, I said.

Have you heard them? I think they sound good, she said.

I think they would be inferior in every way, I said. I happen to like the way these look, I said.

But you're a speaker freak, she said.

No, I'm an audio freak. It just happens that those speakers satisfy me, I said.

There was a tad more talk between us, but the bottom line is they, the commitee, (or maybe just her) don't like the look of big speakers. I left feeling very disheartened.

What's a musician to do?

Woo

[IndyKlipschFan]

Some interesting suggestions....

Did we hide what Jesus looked like, or rely on his message?

Where would we put the lovely flowers that people want to share with others?

We could build cloth around the whole speaker itself, to match the decor as a last result?

Oh bye the way, my wife is a great interior designer! She would love to come in and tell.... I mean offer a helpful suggestion to you about a lot of changes to do in your house too? Please./..... you don't mind do you? We need to change your living conditions at your house don't you agree?

And Wooooo, your also an audio / musician freak that is also a Klipsch Speaker freak... Testify my friend!!!!!.

[Guest " "]

It will be just a matter of time.

[meagain]

Too funny. Too bad they don't have a big Jesus on a cross with dripping blood to cite.

I think they look balanced and give more presence to the stage - but I bet they'd be happy with light grill cloth. I know how much 'I'd' prefer it. I was just ranting to my husband about how everything is in black cloth and I don't see the point. I think alot of the WAF issues stem from the big black cube situation?

[colterphoto1]

Nice gesture and I knew you had 4 CW's at the church.

From a PA perspective, they are not at all ideally situated however. The center two are behind the microphones, which might cause feedback or ringing. The two on the wings are extremely close to some of the seating and very far from some others.

This is the reason that most modern sanctuaries have flown systems. With the speakers up higher, and tight directivity horns, feedback is eliminated and there is more even coverage to the entire congregation. But I doubt if they would let you suspend those weighty cabinets overhead. Is there some other system for voice and these are just used for music playback?

At any rate, cool of you to have them installed at the Church, I'm sure it's a massive improvement over those 'skinny' speakers. The suggestion for lighter grill cloth fabric would make them all but disappear. The attempt to camoflage them with planters is hilarious! Gently remind the church ladies that wood and water do not mix, and I'd suggest glass tops for them just for protection. It's cheap insurance!

Michael

[LarryC]

I have to admit it looks like a hi-fi emporium. Picking up on Meagain's point, how about a near-white grille cloth that matches or complements the wall color? I'll bet the speakers won't call near as much attention to themselves. Alternatively, how about putting them in the back or the sides? Jmalotky has had to deal with speaker placement issues in his church, too.

lc

[DrWho]

I think you're screwed. Everyone that knows nothing about audio knows that looks are the only thing that matters with sound []

At
the very least, you need to avoid a confrontational situation as it
will just blow up and not turn out in your favor (it never does). There
are pages of articles, forums, and blogs talking about "sound guys
battling the church committees". Really, it's a sad situation when
making things look pretty gets in the way of intelligibility. It's also
really sad when someone decides they have the right to reject and
belittle a person's ministry. How does she justify rejecting your gift
to the church for aesthetics?

But at the same time, you need to remain flexible. People that
are concerned about aesthetics are coming at it from an "emotional
angle" - meaning that all of the science in the world isn't going to
matter. What will matter is that they feel like they're taking part and
making a positive difference. Try to work with them to arrive at a
compromise that looks better without reducing the sound quality. Heck,
it could be as simple as changing the color (as already mentioned).

Now to be honest, I don't think the current configuration is the
optimum sonic approach for this room. I can think of a few alternatives
that will look much nicer and even sound better too. However, they're
also going to cost money...but that's where your aesthetics lady friend
comes into play. Provide her with a list of acceptable alternatives
(none of which are the crap small speakers) and lay out all the costs
involved. Then ask her to be the first to donate to the cause. Surely
if the aesthetics are important to her, then she should be willing to
front some money too. She will probably try to dodge the topic by
asking about the smaller cheaper speakers - that's when you mention
that they are not of acceptable sound quality and recommend the
committee to seek qualified advice from professionals in the industry
to ensure adequate intelligibility levels (yes, it's something you can
measure and quantify). Getting the committee to seek an audio
installation company is where you're going to win the battle -
especially if you're the one to make the phone call and front them with
the situation at hand. They've got the awesome sales people that deal
with these crazies all of the time.

Sadly, I just don't see any
way to save the cornwalls. They're too big to be flown (not to mention
the cabinet modifications required). Maybe cane grills?

Anyways,
that's just my take on the matter. For what it's worth, I've never won
a battle like this - but I also don't have the people skills. So take
my advice with a grain of salt. The people I see "winning these
battles" are always the ones that don't get defensive and try to keep
things positive. I feel for you Woo, these situations are anything but
pleasant []

[seti]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woo,

That was very very nice of you but take your beautiful speakers home. I don't think they look out of place at all. She is not worthy get some of those cute Bose cube speakers and after a while all the other Church members will want the nice big sounding speakers back : ) 

[Arky]

...and perhaps you can politely remind those concerned you are all there to glorify God.

[djk]

"They were awfully imposing on the lines of the room, she said. " "what about getting some of those small speakers "

What about those large imposing women in their floral print dresses, what about getting some smaller more stylish models?

I've run into these people before. It's all about (their) power and control.

The grill on the Cornwall makes it look like an (ugly) refrigerator.You could make them a lot less intrusive looking with some two-section grills (think Altec 19) that are lighter brown on top, and darker brown on the bottom.

She still won't like them. I've run into these people before. It's all about (their) power and control.

That looks like a bad sounding room from an articulation standpoint, I bet it sounds bad at 10' with un-amplified speech. While the regulars can probably follow the service, a newcomer or those with impaired hearing will not be able to understand what is being said. If you can get them to think that it is their idea to improve communication, they might be willing to do something worthwhile.

[Duke Spinner]

Hmmmmmnnnnn...

good thing I'm not in that position , I'm not known for my politically correct mannerisms.......

the nicest thing I coulda thought to say....is "why don't I stick onenna........ Aaaahhhh, never mind..

I really LIKE the Idea of asking her to Donate some $$$ to fix the problem ...[]

[meagain]

Take them out, sell them to someone who appreciates them, then buy yourself some toys. They can then buy new speakers with all the money they get that probably should be going to actually help someone that's screwed and/or charity.

[Seadog]

Here's a suggestion.

Go to eBay and buy some of those little cubes. Install them in the church. Then, invite the whole congregation in for a blind A/B comparison session. Call for an immediate binding vote.

Wait for a couple of months (after Christmas) and sell the cubes on eBay for a profit.

[PrestonTom]

I sympathesize, I have heard those commnets before.

One possibility and it could be done inexpensively as a DIY project, is to simply use an off-white grill cloth so that the speakers would disappear into the walls. If that is not enough, then a table runner on top and and down the sides. This might make it bit less obtrusive and is completely reversible.

good luck,

-Tom

[meagain]

And really.... does the cloth need to be mounted on the board with the cutouts in it for the speakers? Isn't that just for stability? I'd think they'd be able to slap together a simple picture frame, wrap it with new cloth, shove into place.

But yea, like Tom says.... why not fabric draped over them really thin like scrim? Or some fabric that would have properties like the grill cloth, remove current grill?

OK - They'll get used to them. It's just the initial shock. It'll dissipate. Do they realize they sell for $1,000-ish on the used market? Maybe that would shut them up. Make sure they know. Bet they shut up quick. Does ANYONE there appreciate them? If not, I'd haul them out the door.

[ZAKO]

The visual focal point & the audio focal point at times can be at odds....Both may not be uplifting to the soul. Its obvious the front of the room needs a make over....I would call the lady back & point out her help is appreciated & to contact a hall archectect to solve both problems.....That front wall needs some thing more striking....Something to make you want to drop to your knees. Some of your speakers can be used & grill cloth changed.....You dont want the room to look like a Rock concert.

[bodcaw boy]

This is a picture of the inside of my church. There used to be just two Heresys, then a pair of Cornwalls and a pair of Heresys, then I got a pair of Cornwals for my home, then I got Klipschorns and the 2nd pair of Cornwalls went to the church, the Heresys went to a friend. At any rate, I own the speakers and much of the amplification, but just 'store' them at the church - and use them for a P.A., of course.

Today I had invited whoever wished to show up early to listen to the live broadcast of lessons and carols from Kings College, Cambridge. There were about ten of us there. Glorious.

Afterwards a lady on the 'aesthetics' committee approached me and wondered how we might 'hide' the speakers. They were awfully imposing on the lines of the room, she said.

I don't think you can hide them, I said.

She continued... what about getting some of those small speakers to put in the corners, up high where people can't see them?

No. That's what I think of that, I said.

Have you heard them? I think they sound good, she said.

I think they would be inferior in every way, I said. I happen to like the way these look, I said.

But you're a speaker freak, she said.

No, I'm an audio freak. It just happens that those speakers satisfy me, I said.

There was a tad more talk between us, but the bottom line is they, the commitee, (or maybe just her) don't like the look of big speakers. I left feeling very disheartened.

What's a musician to do?

Woo

i guess it all depends on where you grew up......my church has cornwalls for the sancutary and heresys for the foyer and they love them!!

both sets of speakers are birch stained w/black grills. and the heresys are butt joint speakers with no veneer on the edge grain!! but they were installed up off the floor. the cornwalls were built into the wall so that all you see is the grills coming thru the wall. on the back side of the wall, they sit on a shelf. and the heresys in the foyer sit on wooden shelves. we get so many compliments on our sound system (we better as i am not only the youth director but also the sound guy!), that other visiting members ask how much to get a sound system like what we got.

and because paul was very generous in givng every local church speakers, if they asked, there are plenty of churches with at least heresys in them. most all of them are suspended up on shelves and everyone is happy with the looks and sound.

you may want to consider stripping the black paint off and staining them and them mounting on shelves, with the tweeter on the bottom of course! or you may want to find another church with bad sound and marvelous looking speakers and take the church lady there and let her experience bad sound. sometimes, we when things are real good, people don't realize it until they experience something bad.

roy delgado

[Parrot]

Roy posting gave me an idea. Just show the woman a picture of the Jubilees in a scale photo comparison to Cornwalls. Tell her that the Jubilees are what would really be great there.

[bodcaw boy]

Roy posting gave me an idea. Just show the woman a picture of the Jubilees in a scale photo comparison to Cornwalls. Tell her that the Jubilees are what would really be great there.

[bodcaw boy]

Roy posting gave me an idea. Just show the woman a picture of the Jubilees in a scale photo comparison to Cornwalls. Tell her that the Jubilees are what would really be great there.

you say that like its a bad thing....[]

roy delgado