NOSValves Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Wait a minute isn't that how the movie Deliverance got started : ) Funny..... I kind of resemble that comment [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Siamese VRD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 VRD2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Simply beautiful work, Craig! The VRD Stereo Jr. or whatever is absolutely stunning, and built like a damn tank, I see. It's nice to see good ol' American ingenuity at its best isn't dead yet! Definately no shortcuts taken here. Bravo![*][*][*][*][*] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Jim, Why thanks!! Your always a joy of a poster. I'd say I love you but you still haven't dumped that off shore gear so........[] Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 So how does it sound? Or, how does it sound compared to VRDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Lisa, If I tell you it blows them away do I have an order? [6] I've been to tired after the long hours 4 or 5 days straight of working out the perfect IMO layout to comment yet. I always wait for weeks of listening before I believe what my ego is telling me LOL!! Its the catch 22 of designing audio gear your always going to perceive things with your wants rather then reality at first. But in the end the difference in sound will much depend on the users choice of tube compliment. This amp is much more the "Valve Rollers Dream" then the mono blocks ended up. Long story but it has to do with operating points of the output section, available current capacity in the power transformer. Less peak power but more versatility would be the short story! MY wallet says you would Love it 10 times more then VRD's[] In reality all my products will sound similar on a different scale. I build what I like for the most part with new gear if I did anything other I would get out of the new gear business all together. That is the aspect of the new gear that makes it very fun. I may be tired but I had loads of fun building this new amplifier. I love the thing almost as much as my new grand babies!! I hope my kids don't read this forum! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 VRF - Valve Rollers Fantasy. VRWD(TNI) - Valve Rollers Wet Dream (Tissues not included) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwhaples Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 VRF [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 VRF - Valve Rollers Fantasy. VRWD(TNI) - Valve Rollers Wet Dream (Tissues not included) Max LOL!! So when am I shipping one the Greece[] Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 VRF - Valve Rollers Fantasy. VRWD(TNI) - Valve Rollers Wet Dream (Tissues not included) Max LOL!! So when am I shipping one the Greece[] Craig When Tony sells his Yamaha monster which he has lent to me (and I sell my old amp). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Auwen Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Craig, My understanding is that you like to fish... maybe name the amps after the fish you like to catch, i.e. Salmon, Trout, etc.... Just a thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Maybe just dropping the Valve Rollers Dream thing altogether might be a better idea. I'm not sure, but how many tube rectified push pull amps are there on the market right now? When you first threw 'VRD' out there my first guess was that it meant Valve Rectified Delivery -- mostly because it was such a rare thing on modern tube amps. Throw in fixed bias, relatively low feedback, and the ability to run it in triode mode, and I think it stands alone for the most part -- fairly unique I think. I personally don't believe you've sold a single pair to someone who bought it because they were primarily looking for something that would let them roll a wide variety of output tubes. In fact, if you want something like that, just look around -- that's the predominant selling feature of every cathode biased amp on the market! I'm pretty sure just about everyone purchased VRD's based on the reputation of the good sound. As the builder, I think it's perfectly fine for you to come out and say, "You know, I wanted it to be something that a person could do some different things with, but in the end -- it really operates at it best, as well as sounds its best with the KT-88. You can roll if you want, and she can certainly handle that with no problem -- but like me, I think the great majority of you will come back to the KT-88." Allow for rolling, but play to the amp's strength. Don't know. I like the idea of building an amp to sound the best with a certain tube. I think another monoblock offering built around the EL-34 and/or KT-66 might be popular. If I didn't own VRD's I'd be using an EL-34 based amp of some sort. VRD60-M VRD40-ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Dean, Now that was great advise..........one thing about these "cathide biased wonder amps" Zero of them do the Valve rolling with any real technical success or near correct operating conditions for all tubes they are said to run IMHO . Most all of us know that each tube has a recomended window of impedance that should be reflected back to the output tube from the output transformer. This is a variable the designer of a tube rolling amplifier can not escape so that one tube like the "KT88's" in this case will always be optimum from that one angle like you suggest. The thing is with these cathode biased amps every single aspect of the amplifier has to be optimised for that one single standard tube or all are compromised. With my designs you can at least fine tune most all the other variables out of the picture and with this new stereo amp its even more true the the VRD60-M I like your little additions to the naming sceme. The same is true for these amps that have a feedback defeat switch the amp has to be optimised for one mode or the other and its usually for the zero feedback mode. The poor unsuspecting audio consumer gets a very ugly picture of the mode it was not optimised to run in. Keep the feedback rolling this is interesting!! pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 With my designs you can at least fine tune most all the other variables ... and with this new stereo amp its even more true than with the VRD60-M Good point, but what do you do now? I mean, if it works better with the new stereo amp than with the monoblock version -- do you go back and improve/tweak the monoblock version so it's as amiable to the output tube swapping as the stereo version? If you don't mind talking about it, what is it about the stereo version that makes you think it does a better job at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Dean, Heck no that is exactly what this thread is for!! What is most different? Well the largest difference in the stereo amp is the operating points of the output section and the huge available reserve current available to power them at this lower plate voltage. Now everyone please keep in mind that read these comments that I'm in the very early stages of testing here. This difference allows many things that the VRD just could not do and doesn't offer some things the VRD can do. 1) It allow these EL34, KT66, 350B's and other 8 pins types with the same pin out compatibility to now be run in a much friendly environment that will afford more margin of error on the users part. The VRD-60M was designed at the sweet spot of the KT88 run at the "Class A side" of the AB1 operating range in this respect KT88's love this 500V range for the highest class A in the lower power levels most VRD users enjoy. Plug the other tubes mentioned in the amp and your at there absolute limit of those tubes specification that puts them at extreme power output more toward the middle or toward the B of the AB1 operating range for those tubes and they simply do not sound as they could in that environment in my opinion. I have learned its all about running a tube in its sweet spot! They all have this area! Its a fine balance of voltages and current for best results. 2) With this new amp the user can opt to run KT-88's or KT-100 in full Class A Ultra Linear or full Class A Triode with no worries at all. But this will result in lower output tube life which is a fact of life with any Class A amplifier with current production beam tubes (heck to some degree the NOS types had to suffer the same fate). Full Class A is very hard on these Beam tubes I personally think that they were not designed with it in mind but have no data to support that. But hey its the Audiophile hot word ....Class A so I had to delve in further then a day or two testing with VRD's for myself. That is how I learn my best lessens in all things. Yes changes can be offered to the VRD's to make them run like the new amp if people so desire but it will not be cheap. The power transformer would have to be changed and carefully retro fitted. Not sure I want to go there maybe just to many hassles involved? It could be offered on new amps no problem right now I already received a quote on the power transformers. For now that is as far as I will go technically speaking without further listening and testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago_Pete Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Craig, how about building an amp for my wife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 That is hilarous!! The funny thing is my wife would take the man amp. If I change one single thing with my livingroom system that has anything to do with her beloved remote that took her about a year to master she throws fits and is completey lost for another year or so trying to figure out how to get the system up and running. I call her my lovely stone age wife [] You should of seen her when I bought her a cell phone LOL! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 No doubt, makes more sense if you flip the labels. Works good for other stuff too: DeanG/Dr. Who, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Why thanks!! Your always a joy of a poster. I'd say I love you but you still haven't dumped that off shore gear so...[] You're much too kind, big guy![:$] Believe me, Craig, if I wasn't so financially strapped, I'd place my order this instant (it took me almost 6 months and the shirt right off my back to pay off Ben Clarke for his cherry RB-75s, and they were worth every penny)![Y] So for now my off-shore gear will have to do...luckily for me they don't sound half bad for what they are. But they're not VRDs, that's for sure.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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