Crites tweeters?

[mark1101]

I had 4 pair of the CT-125s and found them to be very clean, clear, consistent, and they all had great high end extention. The high end extention is what I enjoyed most about them. I put them in all of my Heritage speakers and enjoyed them for many months.

I eventually returned to K-77s for a couple of reasons. The CT-125s outperformed the K-77s clearly in high end extention but at the same they did not match the Heritage sound IMHO. They also had lower output than the K-77s they replaced. I found myself struggling to hear top end at times with music I had been listening to for years. Albeit what I did hear was pristine. I sold all 4 pair.

I do have one regret though. I didn't have any to try in my Khorns after I got ALK ES networks. I run the K-77 at -5db on those. The CT-125 was definitely not 5 db low (maybe 2-3 at most) which would have allowed me to hear them at an appropriate volume. I then may have had a different opinion about the timber and tonality. I may get another pair to try that way and also on my Jub clone setup.

But.....here's even more important news. I had Bob rebuild several of my K-77s (diaphragm replacements). I can tell you that some were not even broken but I had him do it anyway....and it paid off. Some with mismatched output came back sounding the same again, and better than when I sent them. Cleaner, crisper, new sounding. A noticeable improvement...worth the price. Basically, I think the diaphragms do wear out and cause performance anomalies. I also think the new ones Bob uses are better sounding than older ones.

Meagain...I would instantly send those inconsistent tweeters to Bob and get all the diaphragms replaced. I will bet you will notice much improved performance.

It's funny....I know there are so much better sounding tweeters.....but I still stick to the K-77 because of the classic sound, and since they can be restored so easily. To me it's a no brainer for Heritage.

[Arky]

Bob put his tweets in my cw's when he refreshed them. He says they will take more abuse so I feel better on the occasions that I jump on the volume. I like them.

[meagain]

Mark - What type of x-over did you try them with? And if it had squawker taps, which settings?

[SilverSport]

I bought the single Heresy that DeanG had...it came with brand new Klipsch mid squawker and woofer but a Bob Crites Tweeter and a DeanG crossover...I believe he was hoping it would be the "fill" center for his K'Horns...I am using it as the center for my all Heresy Home Theater...it has (at least for now) replaced my popbumpered Academy and Quartet Center and Mains...

Bill

[LarryC]

Bob's tweeters are so clean that they could be construed as being "too forward" or not blending with the rest of the Heritage speaker. The secret for me was to attentuate them some - either by using an L-pad or with attenuators. It just helps to take them down a notch or two.

That was part of the blending issue for me -- they were extremely clean, more so than the midrange imo. I thought it was too easy to hear a character gap between the tweeter and midrange, and, for me, tonal/timbral consistency has always been one of the great hallmarks of Klipsch. Surprisingly, musical detail was clarified right on down to low notes like the string bass, which I wouldn't have expected from a tweeter. Greater overtone clarity, I suppose. I don't think I myself could have lowered the tweeter with the autoformer-less AK-4 xover.

[meagain]

Silver, it would be interesting if you swapped it with a main and a/b'd the 2 mains against each other.

Mark - Your comments about new diaphragms cement what I'm thinking.... that unless we know a tweeter is in spec, we can't give a fair assessment?

I just bet these diaphragms change somehow and a 30 year old tweet can change just by putting in a new diaphragm and wouldn't that be making it as it came out of the factory (assuming they were 'right' from the factory)? I mean, unless it's made out of cryptonite or something, I would think any plastic/rubber/plasticized rubber (whatever they're made of) can alter a bit over time. Maybe it doesn't take much. Or maybe it's the electrical component in the driver that can morph a bit over time?

Bob - Do you find swings with the squawkers like you do the tweeters? I wonder if they are 'better' and these anomalies don't affect them? I wonder if new diaphragms in a working squawk would change them like they do the tweeters.

I wish someone would play around with this cuz it's really bothering me.... I think Bob would be the guy. (wink) But there's been so many people come on this board (and others) with the "I got khorns and they're so bright/piercing" which typically meets with the usual "get tubes", "your gear is crap", when they might really have a real physical issue like me. (end of tweeter rant)

Gonzp - I'm still confused which tweeter you are referring to. And, did you get your answer?

[mark1101]

Mark - What type of x-over did you try them with? And if it had squawker taps, which settings?

You name it, I tried it. E, B, ALK B, A, AA, ALK Jr., AL-3, AK-3, recapped AK-3. I wouldn't be concerned about the tap settings and such. Everyone will hear something different and set those differently. Some have said Bob's tweets were too loud. I found them not loud enough. It's just a matter of opinion and compatibility to each system.

The important point is that if you have K-77s that you are unhappy with.....it is certainly worth it to get them updated. They are still a good tweeter and can be rebuilt to sound like new.

Just to answer your question though, I run my ALK networks (Jrs. and ES) at -6.2 db on the squawker. On the ES nets there is a tweeter attenuator and I set those at -5 db. I can't remember what my cornwall ALK Bs are set to. But they were the only speaker I could not enjoy the CT-125 in at all. They were just all wrong for me with those in there. I ended up having bob rebuild the K-77s for those.

[gonzp]

  Lisa,

     I have been been running the round magnet K-77 tweet in the K-horns.  I am going to swap them out today for the CT-125's for chits and giggles.  I would have done this last night but Rosalie took me out to dinner and than we went to drink some beer and didn't get home till way late.

[Guest " "]

Allan

Yes, those are the best sounding T-35's.  I have the tec data for them and they go to 19khz.  They look like mini T-350's to me.  I have a set of these as well as the T-350's and and most of the other t-35's.

[Deang]

Look at all these posts, they are all over the map: The tweeter's too loud. The tweeter's not loud enough. The tweeter's just right. I assure you it's not the tweeters.

[meagain]

Then what is it Dean? How do you explain 2 different tweeters in the same speaker, same position, same x-over - sounding and testing differently?

[Allan Songer]

Dean--I never said the Crites tweeters were too loud. I just found them piercing and shrill, which made them jump out at me.

[meagain]

Allan - Piercing & shrill to the point where it physically buzzes your eardrum here & there? My k-77-m's do that. I can't listen to anything that has muted trumpet in it. It's the most ghastly experience and I've had to eq them down big time (in one area). Sounds like someone's sitting there cranking the volume control each time it comes in.

I've ordered a pair of Bob's tweeters with zero expectation, but I'll be darned surprised if I get the same response I'm getting out of this particular set of k-77-m. No one would own khorns if that was normal. Those tweeters in an ak-3 x-over tames them a bit which makes me think Klipsch tried to deal with things in more recent years?

[Deang]

I wasn't counting you Lisa, I think you have an audio demon in your house. I think all of these tweeters are within 2dB of each other -- and that anything else people are hearing is from differences in room acoustics and recorded material. I suppose a couple of you could be half deaf too.

[Guest " "]

DeanG

"Look at all these posts, they are all over the map: The tweeter's too loud. The tweeter's not loud enough. The tweeter's just right. I assure you it's not the tweeters."

Ah yes....I have numerous tweeters in my tweeter collection....I think I have all but bob's and those t-35's that have the skinny horns....each has its own character...some warm...some mellow....some forward...some laid back...some enchanting...some detailed...some are good for rock, jazz, country, latin, etc.

Just like a good tube collection....depending on the mood...I'll swich out the tweeters before any serious listening.

[mark1101]

Dean,

You know all the speakers I tried the CT-125s in, and all the networks too. In every case, they were not loud enough for me. But I never got to try them where they might have worked...in my Ks once I got the ES networks. I already explained.

I have no idea how anyone could replace a known good K-77 (square or especially round) with a CT-125 and the CT-125 be louder. After all I have tried...I know it was all within my own equipment....but all I did was substitute tweeters.....and they did the same thing every time in from Heresys all the way up to the Khorns (prior to ES networks).

I think the CT-125 may measure like a K-77, but it has a subtle laid back sound that I personally perceive as less volume consistently. IMHO.

For Bob, I don't mean to knock the CT-125. It's a darn nice sounding tweeter. I don't want to give the wrong impression. I like them.

[Coytee]

I've ordered a pair of Bob's tweeters with zero expectation, but I'll be darned surprised if I get the same response I'm getting out of this particular set of k-77-m. No one would own khorns if that was normal. Those tweeters in an ak-3 x-over tames them a bit which makes me think Klipsch tried to deal with things in more recent years?

Lisa.. I've got a pair of JBL 2404 "babycheek" tweeters that are sitting around. One thing about this hobby of ours is sometimes to try something you gotta pay for it FIRST and if you don't like the change, it can become an expensive experiment.

If you'd like to listen to the JBL's, I'd be happy to box them up & ship them to you for an audition. Your only expense would be to ship them back.

When I had my Khorns, I put in Al's extreme slope networks and put the JBL's on top of the Khorns. Simply sitting on top, out in the open with no baffle or anything for them. Sat them on top like you might sit a coffee cup. The 2404 tweeters were the SINGLE most telling change I made to the Khorns. For me in my room, I really liked the difference and one reason is a table occupies my "sweet spot". Since these have wider dispersion, the sound filled out the room a lot better. I was able to dinker with their output using Al's crossover. I don't know how you're setup.

I was going to do the trachorn thing too but that darn 402 jumped line!!!

So, if you would like to try these, send me your address and I'll get them out.

[meagain]

Mark - Didn't you sell all your CT-125's? Did the buyer report the same?

Dean - IDK... I question if my k-77-m tweeter situation is all that odd. I've been biatching about these tweeters since I got them (as you know) but only now figured out they might be wacked a bit. Look at the many posts here & elsewhere complaining of khorns, etc. being piercy. "Should khorns really be so bright?", etc. etc. How many of them have the luxury of a mic with any testing gear? Moreso, how many of them have the luxury of having multiple Klipsch laying around to swap parts out of for testing? I've learned something with every speaker purchase. I just have to question if I really am freekishly unlucky.... or these tweeters do vary either out of the factory and/or change a bit with age.

[Guest " "]

" or these tweeters do vary either out of the factory and/or change a bit with age."

I find they do vary....even amoung like types.  When ever I put together something, I have to pull multiple drivers I have and compare them to get a close match.  

[meagain]

I've ordered a pair of Bob's tweeters with zero expectation, but I'll be darned surprised if I get the same response I'm getting out of this particular set of k-77-m. No one would own khorns if that was normal. Those tweeters in an ak-3 x-over tames them a bit which makes me think Klipsch tried to deal with things in more recent years?

Lisa.. I've got a pair of JBL 2404 "babycheek" tweeters that are sitting around. One thing about this hobby of ours is sometimes to try something you gotta pay for it FIRST and if you don't like the change, it can become an expensive experiment.

If you'd like to listen to the JBL's, I'd be happy to box them up & ship them to you for an audition. Your only expense would be to ship them back.

When I had my Khorns, I put in Al's extreme slope networks and put the JBL's on top of the Khorns. Simply sitting on top, out in the open with no baffle or anything for them. Sat them on top like you might sit a coffee cup. The 2404 tweeters were the SINGLE most telling change I made to the Khorns. For me in my room, I really liked the difference and one reason is a table occupies my "sweet spot". Since these have wider dispersion, the sound filled out the room a lot better. I was able to dinker with their output using Al's crossover. I don't know how you're setup.

I was going to do the trachorn thing too but that darn 402 jumped line!!!

So, if you would like to try these, send me your address and I'll get them out.

Coytee! Oh wouldn't that be deliciously interesting!!??!! I'd love to take you up on that but off the top of my head, aren't sure if they'd work with what I have here as far as x-overs stock squawks and such? But I'd Love to take you up on your generous offer of a listen. Are they for sale as well in case they make me keel over with goodness? Too fun!