Will Tube Amps Be Banned Next?

[michael hurd]

Clean & nuclear??? LOL.... what happens to all the waste???

[Travis In Austin]

Are you saying Manbearpig is not real? That Gore is being disingenuous? If incandescents are banned then I hope they also ban halogens, since they create more heat and use a lot of energy. Might as well be consistent. Have your lawyer call my lawyer, in eight months maybe we can do lunch....

I was napping, did someone say "lawyer"?[li]

However, that does raise a couple of questions. What about mercury vapor tubes like mil spec 211's? They are toxic, and lethal if broken. But they sure sound darn good, well worth the risk.

I thought I read last year in TAS an article or interview about a manufac. in the UK that was complaining about a new law there about what could be contained in certain audio components. It was driving up the price of their gear, and there was no reasonable substitute. They pointed out that other industries were able to get waivers but not high end audio. It is probably not too far away.

Travis

[colterphoto1]

If you can take the buzzing from the ballasts of those FL bulbs you are blessed. They drive me batty

[Parrot]

I read the other day that a certain political party is planning to tax eBay sales, and that sellers will have to report all sales to the IRS. It starts with light bulbs, then eBay, pretty soon you're into some serious intrusion. The Taliban, you'll recall, bans all music--that's pretty intrusive if you ask me.

[Travis In Austin]

There IS an alternative...

Yes and the amplifier is called Gasoline

Good2Bhome,

Where are you located?

Are you in Austin?

Travis

[fini]

Did someone mention California? Proud to be a Californian here. Paul, we recycle our fluorescents (and most everything else)...

[coda]

right on cue, the "energy efficient" amplifier

I was surprised to see Tripath had recently filed for bankruptcy . .

[mas]

Revenue generated on EBay is already taxable! Always has been!

If you are a vendor you are required to report income from EBay as income.

[Klipsched with Yamahas]

This is an interesting developing story.....hmmmmm:

TUBE AMPS WANTED: Willing to pay 50 cents on the dollar to liquidate your obsolete equipment[:#]

Man, I suppose that statement alone, is reason for BANISHMENT.....just kiddin' folks. However, it does make one wonder in what direction we are headed. It isn't that far-fetched, and just look at the EPA regs, and how it impacted the automotive industry (i.e. unleaded fuel, emissions controls, etc.) This alone KILLED the muscle car era, and if you want to still run a vehicle of that era, does anyone care to guess how much hi-octane unleaded gas costs these days? ONLY THE RICH CAN AFFORD IT!

Oops, I forgot this is the KLIPSCH forums (lol)

[mas]

This is an interesting developing story.....hmmmmm:

TUBE AMPS WANTED: Willing to pay 50 cents on the dollar to liquidate your obsolete equipment[:#]

Man, I suppose that statement alone, is reason for BANISHMENT.....just kiddin' folks. However, it does make one wonder in what direction we are headed. It isn't that far-fetched, and just look at the EPA regs, and how it impacted the automotive industry (i.e. unleaded fuel, emissions controls, etc.) This alone KILLED the muscle car era, and if you want to still run a vehicle of that era, does anyone care to guess how much hi-octane unleaded gas costs these days? ONLY THE RICH CAN AFFORD IT!

Oops, I forgot this is the KLIPSCH forums (lol)

Debating the future of tubes, regardless of how much you like them, is like lamenting the development of the clothing or shoe market that began moving offshore in the 60's!

In fact, the only thing still driving it is the opening of the FSU markets where tube technology was still being actively employed.

I just finished retubing a large Audio Research amp with KT66s etc., for a cost of $401.something. ...Essentially making a substantial payment toward a new amp.

Is it worth it? Except in emotional terms, NO.

No one needs to ban tubes nor to focus on such an extreme niche market. Market realities are doing it just fine. Just like the clothing and shoe industry.

[mas]

Focusing only on existing technology and not on emerging technologies such as LEDs, the following is from the DOE:

"In 1993, U.S. households used a total of 90.8 billion kWh for electricity for lighting. If households replaced all
incandescent bulbs used four or more hours per day with compact fluorescent lights, they could save 31.7 billion
kWh annually, or 35 percent of all electricity used for residential lighting (Figure 3).

In the Commercial Sector . . .



In 1995, U.S. commercial buildings used a total of 352 billion kWh of electricity for lighting.
Although some energy savings would occur by simply replacing incandescent lights with fluorescent
lights, CBECS data suggest greater energy savings will occur by replacing existing fluorescent lights with more
energy-efficient equipment such as electronic ballasts,
which increase fluorescent efficiency by up to 25 percent. For example,
a study of a 440,000-square-foot office building in Washington, DC,
which rewired T-12 fluorescent lamps and magnetic ballasts with
smaller-diameter T-8 lamps and electronic ballasts, revealed
a potential for annual savings of about 290,000 kWh, worth $27,000 per
year to the building owner. Power per
fixture was reduced by 20 percent, from 110 watts to 88 watts [Harris
et al. "Monitored Savings from Energy-Efficient Lighting in DC Office."
Center for Building Science News Spring 1997. Vol.4 No.1]. The 1995
CBECS reported that 48 percent of total commercial floorspace (56 percent of lit floorspace) was served by
fluorescent lights with energy-efficient ballasts. There remains a significant fraction of commercial building
floorspace that can be upgraded with more energy-efficient lighting equipment."

BTW, electronic ballasts are silent. Also, if you are not aware of them, compact fluorescent lights are NOT the same as traditional fluorescent lamps.

Much of this issue is a bit spurious. There are large savings in many practical respects to be realized.

And much of this debate is no different that having codes require higher insulation values be utilized in order to minimize heating and cooling loads upon the utility infrastructure as well as lowering costs upon the consumer. And such would not be considered an undo burden. And it too would afford significant benefits. But then simple economics in a free market should make this readily apparent. Just as does using compact fluorescent lights. Who needs the government to institute what should be common sense!??

The sad fact is that most people use the same unit of energy to measure light output as they do to measure sound output! And for the most part this is a meaningless unit for the intended applied purpose (see any irony here folks!?) And the watt is a great measure of electrical energy converted to HEAT! But that unit measures neither the light output nor the acoustical SPL output nor does it provide any measure of efficiency!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

It isn't that far-fetched, and just look at the EPA regs, and how it impacted the automotive industry (i.e. unleaded fuel, emissions controls, etc.) This alone KILLED the muscle car era, and if you want to still run a vehicle of that era, does anyone care to guess how much hi-octane unleaded gas costs these days? ONLY THE RICH CAN AFFORD IT!

You have to be kidding. The muscle car had to be killed before it killed us. I have owned 6 muscle cars and don't miss them at all. You can now buy a 500 HP (rear wheel, not flywheel) Corvette that gets 30 mpg and pollutes less while driving than a muscle car did just sitting there. A Nissan Maxima has more power than a 69 Camaro SS 350. What exactly do you miss? The american auto industry had to be slapped into shape. They eventually learned that if you burn as much of the fuel as possible and capture as much heat energy as possible, you will make way more power and beter mileage. Now, saving the kinetic energy (hybred) is the big thing. It will only get better.

If you live in one of the valleys out west and cannot see the mountains on certain days you would understand. A big part of my job is water and environmental law. If properly managed, we all need these regs.

[IndyKlipschFan]

LED's will be the lights of the future. Were not quite there yet..... But were getting close...

They will last a lot longer. Burn cooler. Win win..

[JJkizak]

Tubes being banned? ------------------------I don't care, I have SS.

Flourescents cheaper on energy?-------Yes.

Ban muscle cars?------------------------------No.

Nuclear plants cleaner?----------------------No way. Nowhere to store waste for 10,000 years. A meltdown will contaminate a 600 mile diameter area for 10,000 years, this means nothing will grow there including human beings.

LED's use less energy?----------------------Yes.

Global warming?---------------------------------Yes, it's the "rate of global warming" not global warming to worry about.

Earth's magnetic field shifted 15%?-------Yes, worry a lot, and they don't know why.

Super Volcanoe blowing?---------------------Yes, worry a lot, Yellowstone is one of them that blows every 600 thousand years and is 40 thousand years overdue. Satellite measurements showing that Yellowstone rising 1 ft per year. This will be the end of humanity in all probablilty as it will throw us into an ice age for 2000 years. One of the other super volcanoes is in Indonesia with a mouth 160 miles across. There have been 4 super volcanoes detected and confirmed with sea cores and ice cores.

Neighbors stereo too loud? -----------------Could be a cause of death.

JJK

[oldtimer]

Super Volcano eruption would be hell on earth, however, humans have survived them before. There is a traceable bottleneck in human genetic variety to the last eruption. With a larger population now more will die than ever before, but technology is better and there are also more that can potentially survive.

[fini]

I suspect a super volcano eruption would play holy hell with the Klipsch forum's ability to stay online. Better register at Audio Karma right now everyone!!

[rivieraranch]

Never mind that fluorescent light looks like hell

[ben.]

There's color correction gel, but you lose a fair amount of output to get it looking right. It's like EQ. LEDs don't look so great either, though color mixing technology takes care of that.

Weren't we talking about football?

[greg928gts]

Clean & nuclear??? LOL.... what happens to all the waste???

Ah yes, the waste! The internalization of the waste from nuclear energy back to the industry that produced it is an anomoly. When nuclear energy power production was first introduced to the world, it was the first time in the history of mankind, that mankind made the producers of that energy responsible for any external affects on society. It is ironic then, that the nuclear energy industry, so beleaguered by environmental groups since its inception, is the most environmentally responsible energy production available to us today. Even with the staggering costs of the social element, nuclear energy is still cheap, and actually does have the least impact on our society.

Part of the reason nuclear energy production gets so much negative attention drawn to it is because the negative aspects of it are the primary focus of every discussion surrounding it. Think about it, no other fuel used to produce energy is forced to internalize the negative aspects of using that fuel the way nuclear is. There are many negative aspects surrounding the burning of fossil fuels, yet for the most part, they are all dealt with by society, they are all costs to society in one way or another, not the fossil fuel industries. Here in Maine, we have the Maine Oil Dealers Association buying advertising on our local T.V. broadcasts touting the benefits of using oil heat.

By the way, I read an article recently that stated that if all of the energy consumed in the world in a year by the burning of fossil fuels could be converted to nuclear energy, the waste from the nuclear energy production would fit in a 16 meter cube. Set in concrete, the heat from the decay of waste in that cube could probably be used to heat water for the residents of a small city for many years.

[Speedball]

tubes banned for amps? I certainly hope not!

...and if all the commercial buildings are required to use fluoroscent........they better start out with the smaller diameter T-8 models because that's what they retrofit the T-12's with and somebody pockets a lot of money to do that! A hospital I used to work for had every fluoro light replaced with the T-8 because they are brighter and use less energy.......that's a LOT of lights.