anyone else get to a point where ?????????

[BEC]

I quoted James post.  He said he was at Ramstien.  My main tube swapping Air Force days were spent at Altus AFB in Oklahoma in the 60's.  By the time the 70's rolled around, all the stuff I worked on for the Air Force was solid state.

Bob

[jacksonbart]

I gave my brother the first SS reciever and amps I ever brought with my own money. Not one dime in maintance other then wiping away the occasional dust. My brother now has it, its working like a charm, little more than 14 years old.

[mark1101]

Oh yeah........ I had tubes for a short while. I had tubes blow out. Old tubes, new tubes, and NOS tubes. I had tubes that actually function normally but sounded bad. I too had to have the equipment serviced. It got to the point that I was almost afraid to turn on the stereo for fear of what I might see or hear. The Mrs. got real tired of the tube money pit no matter how nicely they glowed. I went back to high end SS with Accuphase equipment (E530) and have not looked back or regretted the decision once.

I just don't understand this. What tube gear are you guys buying that keeps crapping out on you? Are you making sure stuff is brought back to spec or better before using on a regular basis? When I go home at night and turn on my system, it never even crosses my mind that something will go wrong. It just doesn't happen.

I agree with Gary. I just don't have anything even remotely problematic like some of these examples posted. The minor maintenance issues are fun for me and come maybe once every couple of months. Sometimes I'll just take out the meter and check the bias just to see what it is. If it's off by a little I don't even touch it. I've had maybe 3-4 tube replacements over 4 years with 5 tube amps running. I will agree with the cost....and purchase of tubes. I bought a ton and spent a lot.....but I still have them all too.

[Mike Lindsey]

My apologies James, I got in a hurry and typed Bob in there! What years were you there and I think but I'm not sure Mike L. may have been at Ramstien also if I remember correctly[:$]

I was at Hessisch Oldendorf (609th) from 78 - 82, but spent a bit of time at Ramstein and Sembach (and K-Town) during those years. I was also on the base bowling and volleyball teams, and got to travel all the bases. Didn't know much about tube gear then, but heard my first pair of La Scala's at the Ramstein BX. Never forgot it. Also bought half my albums at Pop's Top Shop in K-Town. I sure did have a great time over there!

Mike

[BEC]

As far as how long the solid state stuff works without maintenance, some can last a very long time. This Electrovoice 1179 receiver from 1967 (I think) is still going strong and sounds good.

Bob

[kaiser SET say]

That's a good looking unit Bob[]

Mike, I worked in the Ramstien AFFEEs audio store in '78 & '79 and I liked the Klipsch heritage models back then but my heart was sold on JBL at the time and I had a pair each of L-36's, L-100's, L-65 Jubals (could still kick myself for selling all of those) and then when I got back stateside I could not afford my dream pair of L-300 Summits so I settled for a pair of 4311B Control Monitors which were driven by a bi-amped pair of the NAD PE2200's and that was a very nice combo. It appears you were getting there as I was on the down side of my tour.

[oldbuckster]

Fine VINTAGE Unit there, Bob..............What else do you have stashed in your shop?

[Mike Lindsey]

That's a good looking unit Bob[]

Mike, I worked in the Ramstien AFFEEs audio store in '78 & '79 and I liked the Klipsch heritage models back then but my heart was sold on JBL at the time and I had a pair each of L-36's, L-100's, L-65 Jubals (could still kick myself for selling all of those) and then when I got back stateside I could not afford my dream pair of L-300 Summits so I settled for a pair of 4311B Control Monitors which were driven by a bi-amped pair of the NAD PE2200's and that was a very nice combo. It appears you were getting there as I was on the down side of my tour.

Yeah, it was the AFFEE's store. Boy, they had a heck of a speaker room there. My base was very small and we only had a few components there. I was there from Septemper of 78 to May of 82. Four of the best years of my life.

Mike

[NOSValves]

Yea well I bet the quality of the technicians could of had something to do with the equipment problem with the tube gear used in the Military! Heck back in those days the military would take anyone with a heart beat and many didn't even have high school diploma's. Then factor in that the gear was most likely from the 2nd world war era and used 24/7 for all those years. It's not like the US military was at the top of their game in the 70's and 80's. Heck a good number of the recruits at are local air force base in the late 70's early 80's were stoned out of minds most of the time! Anyone swinging credentials trained by the US military in the 70's and 80's sure doesn't hold much weight with me.

While you will get no argument from me that tube gear requires more care then solid state the way its being portrayed by many in this thread is just totally false. Talk about agenda's..............these same [bs] arguments have been around since SS arrived in the late 60's. It really is to bad it sounded like sh!t then and still does for the most part today. When is the last time you heard a tube amp advertised as sounding like SS? You sure hear the reverse all the time.

Craig

[Audio Flynn]

Yea well I bet the quality of the technicians could of had something to do with the equipment problem with the tube gear used in the Military! Heck back in those days the military would take anyone with a heart beat and many didn't even have high school diploma's. Then factor in that the gear was most likely from the 2nd world war era and used 24/7 for all those years. It's not like the US military was at the top of their game in the 70's and 80's. Heck a good number of the recruits at are local air force base in the late 70's early 80's were stoned out of minds most of the time! Anyone swinging credentials trained by the US military in the 70's and 80's sure doesn't hold much weight with me.

While you will get no argument from me that tube gear requires more care then solid state the way its being portrayed by many in this thread is just totally false. Talk about agenda's..............these same [bs] arguments have been around since SS arrived in the late 60's. It really is to bad it sounded like sh!t then and still does for the most part today. When is the last time you heard a tube amp advertised as sounding like SS? You sure hear the reverse all the time.

Craig

Amen!

[33klfan]

I'm sure everyone has heard my story and it was not a fun experience to start out the way it did with my first tube amp, but in all regards it was all worth it in a weird sense. I kind of hated it at the time, but now i love my tube amp and when i listen back to my pioneer sx-980, i can't listen to that very long. The tubes are like nothing i ever heard before. The sound is just impeccable and i can hear things i never heard before and it makes my sf-1's sound like they are $1000 speakers. My 233 made my sf-1's sound like a much better pair of speakers. All in all, i love my tube amp. I hope it doesn't need service for a long time.

[kaiser SET say]

Many of the BAT SS amps make that very claim Craig, Dee and Seti have heard mine and might chime in as I do feel for SS my VK-200 is a very warm sounding amp[]

I could probably give you some consise #'s on those Military Potheads Craig as I was in law enforcement K-9 during my tour in Germany and since Ramstien had MAC, TAC, SAC and the 4th ATAF on the post not to mention a couple Army brigades (by the way I busted far more Army boys on post than FlyGuys!)

All I pretty much do anymore is just listening as I use guys like JoeSport to quell my new gear desire! THX Joe[] Having two little ones again really cuts back on large ticket audio items[:^)] I'm pretty pleased with the sound of my rig and it will always take a back seat to the little Kaiser's although I've started putting #'s down for that all tube setup on the Indy's[6]

[Mike Lindsey]

Yea well I bet the quality of the technicians could of had something to do with the equipment problem with the tube gear used in the Military! Heck back in those days the military would take anyone with a heart beat and many didn't even have high school diploma's. Then factor in that the gear was most likely from the 2nd world war era and used 24/7 for all those years. It's not like the US military was at the top of their game in the 70's and 80's. Heck a good number of the recruits at are local air force base in the late 70's early 80's were stoned out of minds most of the time! Anyone swinging credentials trained by the US military in the 70's and 80's sure doesn't hold much weight with me.

Craig

The Air Force required a high school diploma or GED equivelant back then, just as they do today (unlike the other branches). I will admit the equipment we were using (I was an Air Traffic Controller) was antiquated at best and was in serious need of being updated, but we made do with it. Not sure what you mean by "Anyone swinging credentials trained by the US military in the 70's and 80's sure doesn't hold much weight with me.", but I'll take what I learned during those 4 yours and stack it up against anyone who spent the same 4 years in college during that same timeframe. YMMV...

Mike

[Cut-Throat]

Yea well I bet the quality of the technicians could of had something to do with the equipment problem with the tube gear used in the Military! Heck back in those days the military would take anyone with a heart beat and many didn't even have high school diploma's. Then factor in that the gear was most likely from the 2nd world war era and used 24/7 for all those years. It's not like the US military was at the top of their game in the 70's and 80's. Heck a good number of the recruits at are local air force base in the late 70's early 80's were stoned out of minds most of the time! Anyone swinging credentials trained by the US military in the 70's and 80's sure doesn't hold much weight with me.

Craig

The Air Force required a high school diploma or GED equivelant back then, just as they do today (unlike the other branches). I will admit the equipment we were using (I was an Air Traffic Controller) was antiquated at best and was in serious need of being updated, but we made do with it. Not sure what you mean by "Anyone swinging credentials trained by the US military in the 70's and 80's sure doesn't hold much weight with me.", but I'll take what I learned during those 4 yours and stack it up against anyone who spent the same 4 years in college during that same timeframe. YMMV...

Mike

I'll second your comments Mike! In fact I'll add that I was drafted in 1971 and that prompted me to enlist in the Navy, The Navy also required a HIgh School Diploma and since there was a draft back then, a lot of the guys had College degrees and were drafted. Unlike today, where we have a draft of the poor and very few college trained people. I worked in Electronics and a lot of the guys I worked with had EE degrees. The Average G.I. Joe during the draft days of the 70's were on average a hell of lot smarter than the average G.I. today. Today they join the army, if they are too poor to go to college and not smart enough for financial aid!

[Deang]

The Air Force has a great system: if you're stupid you don't get to touch anything. The guys that know that their stuff really know their stuff. I work with some enlisted people that are simply brilliant. I imagine it was the same back then as it is now: A couple of guys who could walk on water run the shop, a few competent guys under them -- and a handful of guys that you bury in paperwork to keep them away from stuff. The fact that the stuff back then lasted as long as did is a testimony to their proficiency -- at least, that's how I look at it.

Most don't have much trouble with their tube stuff, but a few do. I'm in with the few I guess, but it was because of laziness. Craig was after me for a year to check my voltage at the wall, and when you roll tubes in and out a lot you have to retension the sockets -- I did neither. Problems I had with output tubes was directly related to loose pin sockets -- which also plays hell on the rectifying tube. It's like not changing your oil for five years and blaming GM when your engine blows up. After I retensioned the sockets I didn't have any more problems -- which took about 15 minutes. Finally, current production tubes are pretty good, and I can't even remember the last time I had a problem that was actually related to a tube.

If life is busy and it prevents audio from being the main focal point of your time, it is nice to just be able to turn something on, leave it on, and just turn the volume control up when you want to hear music. There is a tradeoff for that convenience though. I really like the sound from my Super-T, and though it sounds as clean and harmonically correct to me as a good tube amp -- it's not going to win any big awards in the 3D imaging category, and I can't engage in any live level listening without listening fatigue quickly settling in.

[NOSValves]

I knew my comments would rub some the wrong way but like always I call them like I see them and speak from personal experience. I grew up through my teens and on into young adulthood in a small town outside of Oscoda, Michigan which had a pretty large B-52 base up until the last 15 years. I spent allot of time on the air force base, went to school with the air force brats and I know what I witnessed. If someone in the area wanted to score some drugs where did you go? Yup to the base. The armed services were a complete shambles in personal and equipment all through the 70's and early 80's anyone denying it is blind or just refuses to acknowledge the obvious. I'm sure exceptions existed as always but all and all a good portion of the folks in the service back then were not what I would call sharp if you know what I mean.

Craig

[JBryan]

Craig,

Not trying to be glib but where else would you expect to find drugs "in a small town outside of Oscoda, Michigan" and how else would you expect these folks to entertain themselves? No...seriously.

[Cut-Throat]

Well I guess Craig told us! - He hung out with some air force brats, while I spent 4 years in the Navy training Pilots on an Electronic Warfare Range, working with not too sharp people that had graduated from MIT and Stanford with EE degrees.[:|]

[NOSValves]

Well I guess Craig told us! - He hung out with some air force brats, while I spent 4 years in the Navy training Pilots on an Electronic Warfare Range, working with not too sharp people that had graduated from MIT and Stanford with EE degrees.[:|]

Pilots are just a bit different then the electronics tech or other normal Joe's in the service at least I would hope they screened them heavily. But since you were training them maybe not? screening probably wouldn't of helped.

By the way I think being around and involved with that same air force base for 20 years gives me some insight. Also having two brothers that were in the air force in that era. In fact one of my brother was a highly trained technician working in missile silos in the early 80's!! Guess what.........his entire squad was thrown out of the service on drug charges including my brother. My brother never drank or did drugs until he entired military service. This problem was wide spread in those days and denying it shows just how ignorant you are.

Craig

[NOSValves]

Craig,

Not trying to be glib but where else would you expect to find drugs "in a small town outside of Oscoda, Michigan" and how else would you expect these folks to entertain themselves? No...seriously.

All us locals entertained ourselves just fine without drugs............. plenty to do besides get stones and drunk up in the north country. Besides the problems were on ALL MILITARY BASES large town or big town made little difference. Many small towns have military bases today and these problems are none existent for the most part. The 70's and early 80's were a very dark period for the US military from top to bottom just coming off the VN war and all.