POLL: What Will Craig Do?

[arfandbark]

Properly handled, ceramic insulators are fine. Old wire is big wire.

They tend to overload the circuits over the years by adding on and on and on.

Junction boxes and more junction boxes.

[arfandbark]

The sonic waves can be shaking a wire somewhere.

[arfandbark]

I forgot. These are tube amps. No bass compared to SS..... No shaking chickens off the nest with VRDs.[]

[oldbuckster]

Who cares what Craig says at this point...............If that's the attitude, why ask his advice in the first place ? Gee, he's always there with an honest answer............Oh I get it, the answer is not what you want to hear...............too bad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[arfandbark]

You can lead a horse to water.

Doesn't mean the horse will drink.

[mike stehr]

"Tubes are annoying in that intermittant connections can cause them to blow (like under 1ms)."

If that was the case, I would have destroyed all my tubes by now......

[arfandbark]

I'll step up and say I'll trade two Crown PS400's for those VRD's.....And some lasagna....

[stormin]

I'll step up and say I'll trade two Crown PS400's for those VRD's.....And some lasagna....

My offer still stands

[Guest " "]

" if you turn the pond pumps off the wall sockets that feed your audio system jump up 3 volts to 127.5 VAC, turn the pumps back on and it goes back down to 124v to 125V THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE SIGN OF A PROBLEM."

how many HP motor?

[Gilbert]

Your running large pond pumps on the same circuit as your audio system...

Ack!

I asked a few friends today. They do not have any special box, etc for their outdoor outlets. It's just tapped from their house. I'm sure many homes are like this.

THIS IS SOME REAL DRAMA, I LOVE IT.......

I love it when people say this kinda stuff....."Oh, my friend told me....blah blah blah". Gotta love that, It's classic stuff.

LISA, CAN YOU SAY POWER SURGE.... no no no, not Sergio, the guy that does your hair, but SURGE!!! Whats the current draw on those pumps that are sharing the circuit with your audio gear? This should be interesting........

Allan has the best idea, if you love your gear and love your music, then provide a dedicated power source to your system. 200amps is probably a bit of an over kill, but better too much than too little, besides, the cost difference is negligable.

Oh, yea, just a minor thing, but uuuh, you forgot to mention that your power tubes were spent, gone, kaput, fried, and burnt-up. I reasonably confident that your vintage house wiring aint helping things either.

[NOSValves]

Fritz,

That's the problem I was under the assumption when she first mentioned this yesterday that they were really large pumps. They are not really all that large but they cause this huge sustained voltage drop on the circuit that her audio system is on. Both pumps ratings together are only for 400 watts of power. They should not cause a sustained 3 volt drop. AC is a strange thing that will work even when gross problem exist. The voltage does not just have to reach the component it powers but it has to have that nice free flowing route back through the common leg. I believe that her problems are compounded by many things

1) Even when her wall voltage is at its lowest its still fairly high

2) She uses the darn amps like mad being home all day every day at best she turns them on when she gets up and back off 12 to 16 hours later just about every day. But in reality I would venture to guess about 50% of the time they were on 24/7. With that kind of usage and normal wall voltage having to change out tubes once a year would not surprise me at all using all modern production tubes. They do not last like the premium NOS types and I don't care what brand you buy when it comes to power and rectifier tubes.

3) Then we have this very questionable AC situation the only way to determine what is going on there is to have a qualified home electrician come in a see what gives. Or buy something like a Furman to correct the voltage and act as a great isolation device from all these AC gremlins. You know the pros all use this stuff for a reason! And they are using it with SS gear.

4) Her digital meter which is in route here right now could be off especially at lower voltage readings its just the basic $15 meter from radio shack.

[Gilbert]

Can these amps be used with any semblance of extension cords?

Oh my! Things are really getting juicy now..... was this your friends recommendation?

[meagain]

No but there's an outlet a few feet from this section of the house. If I could use a bit of extension cord (and I'm not sure why a power strip is OK cuz it 'extends') then I could avoid the area of the house with the outdoor outlet for the pump.

[Audio Flynn]

No but there's an outlet a few feet from this section of the house. If I could use a bit of extension cord (and I'm not sure why a power strip is OK cuz it 'extends') then I could avoid the area of the house with the outdoor outlet for the pump.

I made up my own 10 gauge extension cords with components from the local hardware store. Will not be the root cause of this situation but would not hurt. It is amazing how many robustly jacketed extension cords in fine print are 14 gauge.

Take Allans advice get the power regeneration component.

[kev313]

I have no affiliation with either Craig or NOS Valves. I have never used his services or purchased his amps. Heck, I've never even heard the VRDs. I only know Craig through the forum and even at that I think he can be a bit crusty some times (you shoulda seen him 3 or 4 years ago).

Now that I have that out of the way, I can put my .02 in. Meagain, you are way out of line with your posts and expectations. Do you fully understand that this is Craig's business? That it is the way he earns his money and pays the bills? I can't imagine that you could understand that and author this thread, among your many recent threads and posts, including such clever threads as "POLL: Fun with bias/voltage meters? What is your wall voltage?" Your intention is obvious - you wish to either discredit Craig and Craig's product or support your "side of the story." IF you were a paying customer, which you are not, your actions are at least explainable (yet still in poor taste and, thus, not excusable).

Perhaps you are new to the world of high end audio or cottage business in general, but you should know that the attention given to you, both personally and through this forum, is likely unprecedented in this industry. Craig may well send you the bill in the end, but do not forget about the HOURS of personal attention he must have devoted to your issue thus far. Try getting that out of any other manufacturer of audio products. It is exceedingly rare. MANY companies would tell you to shove that amp given that you are not the original buyer. In, I would guess, EVERY other instance you would make a phone call or write an email to find out where to send the amp and simply send it in.

You, however, have this wonderful forum where you can voice your opinion. You never simply sent the amp in. You could not even get those amps to the manufactuere without months of attempting to self-diagnose the problem and apply various fixes. Worse yet, you dragged Craig, VRDs, and NOS Valves through the streets of the forum the entire time. Some would say that thus is only fair as Craig has certainly availed himself of the forum in getting the word out about his product. Again, to me anyway, the difference is that you did not even support Craig in the first place. Fortunately for Craig and his business, those actions speak to your irrationality.

Bottem line from my point of view - You saved a buck and bought second hand. You are encountering problems but never seek the simple solution (send amps to Craig, investigate home electrical system). Now you demand not only Craig's attention, but the attention of the forum at large, while recklessly endangering Craig's reputation. Bad manners, plain and simple.

[dp1954]

I've been reading this thread, and wondering if I needed to throw my 2 cents worth in. I don't know how old lisa's house is, but judging by the type of wiring discussed I'd guess its at least 60 or 70 years old. Now this is from my experience with my house and my equipment. My house was built in 1850 and had alot of the old wiring still in it. I also have an inground pool with its various pumps/filters/etc. When I purchased the house about 5 years ago, it had been well maintained, but needed some updating. I had the electrical service inspected, and rewired where necessary. I also had all new breakers and boxes installed at this time. When discussing my needs with the electrician who rewired my house we decided to put my audio/video room on its own dedicated service so that fluctuations from other devices would not interfere . The first thing he told me was... DO NOT put the A/V stuff on the same circuit as any appliance/device that have motors that fluctuate/cycle in/out. I have been into tubes now for about 4 years and have never had a single tube go bad... NADA. Just my 2 cents.... and my experience with my house and my stuff.....

Dave

[Guest " "]

"When discussing my needs with the electrician who rewired my house we decided to put my audio/video room on its own dedicated service so that fluctuations from other devices would not interfere .  The first thing he told me was... DO NOT put the A/V  stuff on the same circuit as any appliance/device that have motors that fluctuate/cycle in/out.   I have been into tubes now for about 4 years and have never had a single tube go bad... NADA.   Just my 2 cents.... and my experience with my house and my stuff....."

Key point of understanding is that modern wiring comes in to a house at 220/230 which consist of a red phase and a black phase.  When we say put motor stuff on a sperate line...ideal senero would be to put all moter devices on one phase and sensitive electronics on the other.  This would isolate the electronics from the inductive devices.  Putting electronics on a seperate line, but on the same phase, will not isolate the electronics from the inductive devices.

[sfogg]

Now that's what I'm talking about [Y] Totally immune power supplies []

That is getting pretty common at this point at least for lower power equipment such as sources and pre-amps and so on. For them it is pretty easy to simply regulate all the internal voltages and then normal AC power fluctuations will not really have an effect on the supply lines even with linear power supplies. Then add in universal switching power supplies that will accept anything from about 90v-240v that put out the same voltage and then internally regulate it on top of that and that equipment is basically uneffected by AC voltage changes.

For lower current applications like the small digital amps it is easy enough to regulate their voltages too. Where the regulation gets more expensive is in larger power amps and such. Though on occasion some large amps are fully regulated too.

Shawn

[mark1101]

I see some here condemning extention cords. There is nothing wrong with an extention cord. Do you use a power strip for your system? How the heck do you get all the components plugged in? Isn't a power strip an extention cord? I use a power strip an extention cord and VRDS plus a few other components.

As long as you are using the proper gauge for the amp draw there is nothing wrong with an extention cord. Heck the wire in the wall is probably only 14 ga. if you are on a 15amp circuit.

[sfogg]

"Key point of understanding is that modern wiring comes in to a house at 220/230 which consist of a red phase and a black phase."

It comes into the house as two 120v lines out of phase with each other. When you measure across the two because they are out of phase you see the larger voltage. True 220/240 service (like in Europe) is 220/240 voltage all on a single phase.

"When we say
put motor stuff on a sperate line...ideal senero would be to put all
moter devices on one phase and sensitive electronics on the other."

Yes, that can help. And if your stereo equipment is on multiple circuits having them all on the same phase can also help to lower the noise floor in some situations.

Shawn