RF-7 for 2ch listenning

[prego]

Hi all, nice being here.

I'm a relatively new holder of RF-7 speakers attached to an integrated rotel ss amplifier and a corresponding rotel ss cd player, of which I'm using only for two channels mode listenning. The speakers are now ~ 350 hours burnt in and I think it's great but not there yet.

I'd prefer a warm sound, more balanced, less harsh/bright than it's today. I listen to many styles, from classical to heavy metal.

In achieving that, under budget constraints, I have my eyes on a new combo to replace the ss amplification into tubes and that is a conrad johnson pv10al (tube) preamplfiier and a dynaco st-70 tube amplifier, leaving the cd-player in the meanwhile as is.

My dilema is whehter to continue my efforts in taming the horn this way, revealing midrange some, or to consider other alternatives.

Your thoughts are much appriciated,

Sincerely,

Roberto.

[jacksonbart]

buy a RT12d.

[pierceb]

Welcome Roberto,

I can confirm that switching to tubes will warm the sound for you somewhat. My RF-7's have never sounded better than when I hooked em up to my Blueberry and VRD's. However, there are also many excellent reviews and recommendations on this forum to upgrade the crossover networks. I don't know all the details on how to perform the improvements, but there is a fellow member here (deang) that provides the full upgrade service. I have never read a neutral or negative review about the improvement, particularly in the top end. I'm about to send him my networks next week. If you do a search on the site, you should be able to read up on more of the finer details. Good luck!

-PB

[prego]

pierceb, thanks but those were already "DeanG'd" by the original owner.

jacksonbart, indeed a great sub, but doesn't go well with the constraints

[rsp1068]

I have had my 7's for about 2 years, and will never part with.

I contacted Dean early on as I had heard his xovers to be the cats meow. He was kind enough to tell me the brands he was using, and I took it from there. I ordered his resistor (value change) as well as the oem value but in a tighter toleranced version.

I felt with the mod it pulled off a little more of the high end than I was willing to part with.

I stayed with factory designed values.

I then plugged a Jolida JD100 tubed cd player in the chain, with all Rotel SS components, and it made a big difference as far as taking the "bite" out of the high frequencies, at higher volumes.

I then tried a Jolida tubed pre, which was to much"tube" if you will, as I lost all of the high frequency resolution.

I tried ASL 20 watt monos, and the tubes in the amp area changed the soundfield for the "much" better.

Ultimately, and currently, I use a tubed pre, tubed mono amps, and a high resolution cdp and couldn't ask for more.

I tried a couple of "heritage series" 3 ways from Klipsch, and they were both to mid hot for me. I like balance, from top to bottom, and the 7's provide that without having to add a sub to the mix.

Also, on a side note, after about a year of use, the 7's provided an extra heavy hit to the bottom so am assuming they had finally settled in.

[Deang]

I felt with the mod it pulled off a little more of the high end than I was willing to part with.

Interesting, I've never heard that from anyone before. You paralleled a 10 ohm resistor with the 2 ohm next to the 18uF cap, right? I want to make sure you didn't replace the 2 ohm with a 10 ohm.

[rsp1068]

Its been a over a year Dean, but am guessing that is correct.

[rsp1068]

Much of this may come from my prferences in listening.

I listen to alot of old blues, some jazz, some instrumental, piano being my preference, and prefer a little more laid back sound.

The hot I hear in the 3 ways mid sections may make the music seem a little closer to me than I care for.

I like it real, real being I shut my eyes and John Lee Hooker is in the room with me, and the rest of his band covers the whole section above and beyond the wall, gear, and speaks,and yet are "placed" individually.

The beauty here being one can pick up a pair of "used" Heritage speaks, and if there not ones cup of tea, allways get your money back.

[Southern]

I listen to my RF-7's (with DeanG x-overs) through my HT system. The RF-7s do very well with 2 channel as well as 5.1. I haven't had my RF-7's hooked up to my Dynaco since my Dynaco is sick at the moment. I can say that my Forte's mid's and highs sounded "cleaner" with the Dynaco but the low end punch was missing compared to my 270 WPC Pioneer.

[oldbuckster]

Try a Scott like AUDIO FLYNN has up for sale......................they lack nothing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[prego]

What about getting only the tubed pre CJ, leaving the power amp section of the rotel ss, in efforts of taming the horn/leveraging mid?

Or moreover, using same tubed preamp but amping HF section with the tubed dynaco, while the LF gets the 200wch ss roter power amp (bi-amping without external crossover)

Alternatively, forgetting about such pseudo bi-amping, and reattaching my RW-12 in trying to compensate for the lost base.

Generaly, I get upset of moving into no-frills components such as a tubed preamp on a budget, such without remote controls, etc... but sound is first priorty.

[Audio Flynn]

Welcome Roberto,

I can confirm that switching to tubes will warm the sound for you somewhat. My RF-7's have never sounded better than when I hooked em up to my Blueberry and VRD's. However, there are also many excellent reviews and recommendations on this forum to upgrade the crossover networks. I don't know all the details on how to perform the improvements, but there is a fellow member here (deang) that provides the full upgrade service. I have never read a neutral or negative review about the improvement, particularly in the top end. I'm about to send him my networks next week. If you do a search on the site, you should be able to read up on more of the finer details. Good luck!

-PB

Agreed

[dtel]

" The beauty here being one can pick up a pair of "used" Heritage speaks, and if there not ones cup of tea, allways get your money back."

Depending on where you live, that could be a easy way to try out something different, and sell if it's not for you !

[rsp1068]

What about getting only the tubed pre CJ, leaving the power amp section of the rotel ss, in efforts of taming the horn/leveraging mid?

Generaly, I get upset of moving into no-frills components such as a tubed preamp on a budget, such without remote controls, etc... but sound is first priorty.

Thats a great "safe" way to go about it.

Try used, and if it doesn't do it for you, resell, and take a shot at something else.

I was lucky in my trial and error of used gear, and when I got serious about it (money wise) stuck with dealers.

Audiogon is a good place to try used gear from. They don't have the so called safety net that epay does, but I had learned that's not all its cracked up to be.

I will be getting a BAT VK3i today purchased from agon, its a "purist" approach with no remote, fully balanced circuitry to compliment my other pieces, not out of dislike for my current setup, just having heard their gear figured it worth the try. If its not a good match, its gone for the money I paid for it.

Trial and error is 1/2 the fun of it, achieving it is the other 50%

[oldbuckster]

"Remote Controls" have nothing to do with Vintage Equipment ................... nice feature, but has nothing to do with sound, and isn't sound what it's all about ?

[frankphess]

What about getting only the tubed pre CJ, leaving the power amp section of the rotel ss, in efforts of taming the horn/leveraging mid?

I would try this route first. I have tried combinations of receivers/pre's/amps, and my favorite by far for 2-channel is tube pre with solid state amplification with the RF-7's.

[leok]

1) Try using the 4 Ohm speaker outputs on the ST-70.

2) Get a cd with sinewave sweep 20Hz - 20KHz meant for audio system burn-in, put it on repeat, set volume for loud, but not set for structural damage, let it run for 20 hours (2 days, 10 hr ea).

3) set them up in corners, about 8" from front and side walls, for port optimization.

I think those are the 3 most important things I did with my RF-7s. They are very picky about clean signals, but are really natural sounding when you get it right. I worked on My RF-7 system for 2 years, moved it into where I had been using the Chorus-II system and the RF-7s are much more of what I want. The Bass is better defined and goes lower. Highs are much cleaner and (believe it or not, smoother because of the improved detail).

Good luck

Leo

[Speedball]

I'm still very, very happy with my QSC and RF-7's for music and movies, although sometimes I do wonder what else is out there. Borrow a QSC from a local shop & give it a whirl.

[stormin]

I'm still very, very happy with my QSC and RF-7's for music and movies, although sometimes I do wonder what else is out there. Borrow a QSC from a local shop & give it a whirl.

I have found that each time I change the preamp the sound changes to that of the preamp. I have found the QSC to be very neutral with alot of power. I would recommend to you if you want to try different flavors play with the preamp. And of all the preamps I've had here so far only one had enough gain to satisfy. Another of my personal opinions is that the source, preamp, speakers and room are much much more important to the sound that you hear. Good amplifiers just amplify.

[cjgeraci]

Roberto, I may be bucking the trend here, but here's my take. And this is probably not what you want to hear.

Keep the RF-7s. Use them for HT if you can. They are outstanding HT speakers. But........for everyday musical listening, there is no sure way to "tame" them to the point where you can listen to them at higher levels more than a little bit. I started out with RF-7s and Dean's mod and with similar equipment (Classe SS pre and Rotel SS amps). I then built and morphed my system in trying to tame the "beasts." Ended up with a great tube/solid state system. The beasts were tamed quite a bit, but not entirely . . . . . .

I ended up switching over to older Heritage, and then modded them. Finally, bliss was achieved.

Don't get me wrong. RF-7s are great speakers. But, in my opinion (and my opinion only), that detailed top horn will still get to you for music - at least if you listen to rock and harder rock.

Of course, some feel differently, and I respect that.

Carl.