sibilance on RF-7 (cont'd)

[Guy Landau]

All I know is that it takes the resistor mod and the caps to get it done -- so that's how I build them. There's nothing misleading regarding the description of the tweak, it does exactly as advertised -- just not in Israel. I'm at a loss. Surely you must wonder why after over three years no one has raised a similar complaint.

My 2 cents,

This is a matter of one dissatisfied customer out of many and it can happen so I am quite disappointed from Dean's arrogant response.

From my past experience living in both U.S and Israel, I can say that in most cases, room acoustics is probably very different. Most houses In Israel are built using bricks and concrete and do tend to sound livelier than similarly sized US rooms. I've been using the same pair of speakers with the same equipment, in my NYC apartment and it my Tel Aviv apartment and in both occasions, the system sounded totally different and had to be tweaked in order to sound similar.

I'm not saying that Dean's network are no good nor that Prego is right or wrong. Just, that in Prego's own listening environment the speakerss didn't perform as excepted with the different networks. No need to be offensive or defensive. It can happen and that's life. Nothing to do with Israel or Dean losses. Just that simple fact.

I remember having complaints over the ALK crossovers sounding thin and shrill in the past. Maybe it was another: they sound good but "Just not in Israel" case, over again. I don't know what happens with our hearing over the years here in Israel. For me, as I recall, the cure was changing to a different type of network (type A)....

[Fish]

As an rf7 owner I've been very happy w/7's in the original condition.I've never had an issue with them that a good source and decent gear didn't fix.I may just have a good room or lotsa soft furishings,or....a tin ear but I've never felt the need to change anything about the speakers,as of yet,and I've owned more expensive ones.If I were to feel a change was in order I would have no hesitation in getting Deang to hook me up.More than a few of the friends I trust here have been very complimentary of build and sound.That's not to say anyone that dislikes the original or modified is right or wrong,but it's best keep as personal taste(regardless of numbers) not personally.It's true that Zeppelin II ain't gonna sound as clean as Steely Dan AJA,but I'd say that's true no matter what speakers or xovers.

[NOSValves]

Guy,

I think it's the same thing you and I used to experience on this forum once again rearing it's ugly head. Language and cultural differences. I honestly used to think you were one of the biggest A-hole on earth which I'm sure you felt the same way about me. Once we spent some time on the phone we got alone just fine.

Craig

[Deang]

Guy, that comment was meant to be funny, I apologize if it offended you.

Craig, I used to think you were a big A-hole, and then when I started talking to you on the phone I found out I was right.

[dkp]

Guy, that comment was meant to be funny, I apologize if it offended you.

Craig, I used to think you were a big A-hole, and then when I started talking to you on the phone I found out I was right.

I don't care who you are, thatz funny right there!

[][][]

[Arky]

I ordered new RF-7's from my dealer in 2005. I liked them out of the box. On occasion & on certain passages I noticed the high end was a little shrill & overall a little thin. I read of a network modification that supposedly addressed these issues. I decided what the heck, i'm all in favor of a mod if it improves performance. When I got my networks back from Dean & installed I immediately noticed improvement in less shrillness & the speakers appeared to be a little fuller with more clarity. I don't remember exactly what I posted as a review. It was interesting to me the RC-7 network showed the most improvement.

I think I paid around $425 for 3 networks & was very satisfied. I have seen Dean post a list of the parts used complete with prices & he isn't making that much profit. Dean should realize some monetary gain otherwise he would be doing the mod out of the goodness of his heart for people he's never met. BTW, the last statement applies to the others on this board who perform services also.

I have since moved on to heritage never to look back.

[Trey Cannon]

Dean, thanks a lot for you being sincere. I really think your work is of top notch. However, IMO, I think that the interpretation of the tweak was misleading, and somewhat amateur in the sense that no substantial measurement/proof was made to support such a mod that was applied to so many. My god, did you see the peak in the horn measured by Klipsch? it's a dead evidence that the RF-7 is not for 2ch listening, I really hope the RF-83 measuers better. Again, as always in stereo - everything is subjective and consist of many parameters. If you sure you like it - then it worth it. If I get a new speaker after the RF7, which is in need of a crossover upgrade - I would contact you again, given that you would be objective as always ;-)

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Please remember that the curves I posted are not what you would hear in a room!

That is the RAW curve in the chamber, No smoothing, no splicing, and no room effect (above 200 Hz). To say that the speaker is not a good 2ch speaker is a reach at best. Statements like that are why most, if not all speaker mfg. do not offer real curves to customers.

[Deang]

Personally, I think the RF-7 is one of the best speakers I've ever heard for two channel use -- look at the insanity I engaged in over the last two years to top it. Guy brings up a good point about the different construction methods between here and there -- it's likely we aren't hearing even close to the same thing. Mods or not, the RF-7 will probably sound too bright in a really live room that hasn't been treated to some degree. However, I still can't see how a modded RF-7 can possibly sound brighter in the same room than stock.

[prego]

Personally, I think the RF-7 is one of the best speakers I've ever heard for two channel use -- look at the insanity I engaged in over the last two years to top it.

[8-)]

[Deang]

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/1/220738/ShowThread.aspx

[NOSValves]

Personally, I think the RF-7 is one of the best speakers I've ever heard for two channel use -- look at the insanity I engaged in over the last two years to top and failed miserably

I edited the end of this sentence for you. I'm sure it was just an over site on your part []

[Deang]

I sure hope you like eating crow.

[prego]

Statements like that are why most, if not all speaker mfg. do not offer real curves to customers.

Agreed, but on a different perspective (such as customer's),

Statements like this:

RF-7

Specifications

frequency response

32Hz-20kHz ±3dB

Are why I'm becoming skeptic about some speaker manufacturers' statements.

(I know the reasons; measurments ways, etc, plenty of contradiction options)

[Trey Cannon]

Again, the curve I posted is IN THE CHAMBER! Which has no reflection ABOVE 200 Hz.

To come up with the specs that are posted for everyone, the curve is spliced together with a Ground Plane curve (tested outside so the 200Hz and down data will be correct, i.e. no reflections) then the spliced curve is 1/6th Octave smoothed (with reference to system sensitivity). Low frequency cutoff figures are relative to woofer passband sensitivity. The smoothed curve is what is used to pull the specs.

Thus, my stating that the curve I posted is a "RAW" curve.

Again, you are trying to use apples to make orange juce.

IF you don't like the speakers, sell them and buy something else.

I hear Bose has little to no sibilance problems.

[prego]

So post a full commercialized measurement. (this is the first time I hear those)

When the RF-7 Sound & Vision measurments came the forum was kidding about 'em(same goes for RF-83). Persoanlly, I dont think good measurements is a necessary condition for a good 2ch speaker, however if there's a problem then they can support it. Both HF and LF curves look awful on the measurment you posted. It's not the first time we observe measurments, stereophile publish that with every speaker. But bottom line for me, I think the whole reference line is a 2ch suicide, is truly a remarkable home theater speaker but awfully unbalanced when it comes to enjoying music.

[Deang]

You keep saying that good measurements aren't necessary for a loudspeaker to sound good, yet keep complaining about the measurements. Incidently, S&V review showed weighted response.

There's no smoothing applied to Trey's plots. How about some examples of where 1/6th smoothing is applied?

Here is the anechoic response of the Wilson Watt Puppy System 8 (Stereophile Review). The stated response is 21 Hz - 22.5 kHz +0/-3dB.

[Deang]

I wonder what the raw response of that $14,000 speaker looks like? If it looks that bad smoothed, I can only imagine. Here's an in-room response curve (1/6 octave smoothed).

[jacksonbart]

A good speaker is a good speaker, a poor speaker is a poor speaker. This being a poor 2 channel and a good multi channel speaker makes no sense to me. Why would you design a speaker any differently between the two?

[Deang]

Here's the Vandersteen 2Ce, with a stated frequency response of 32Hz to 21kHz +/- 1.5dB.

[Deang]

In a room.