JubScala?

[chrapladm]

I thought the Jubilees wouldn't need a sub. Do they have 12's or 15's?

Ah yes I saved your pic while looking at another thread. And you have the Spuds I see. I as of now have the THT Lp, but because of the size will have another sealed sub in the next weeks to replace it.

But I also just have some "get me by," speakers for now until I can build a Lascalla bass bin then a whatever for the top.(Fc280 Volti horn then maybe a Klipsch 402)

I will never be able to afford some Jubilees(although I dont know how much they retail for either) I figured I would just have to build my speakers for now. I have seen a few 1974 plans floating around that I think I might have to try and build.

DO the Jubilees take up more room width wise then the La Scalla's?

I know they are angled on a wall so I didn't know if with the angle they are still wider than 24"?

Just curious but as of now I will be trying to just build the La Scallas and drool over others bigger Klipsch designs. I thought of doing a Cornscalla but really do love the look of the horned bass bins by Klipsch.

[Guest Anonymous]

Just curious but as of now I will be trying to just build the La Scallas and drool over others bigger Klipsch designs. I thought of doing a Cornscalla but really do love the look of the horned bass bins by Klipsch.

If your doing a build, why dont you build the Bass bin from the cornscala(Cornwall). It will be an easier build, and will also have a better Low end response.

[Chris A]

I thought the Jubilees wouldn't need a sub.

The Jubilee bass bins (i.e., KPT-KHJ-LFs) are designed with horn length to facilitate about a 31 Hz -3dB point. This is the same lf performance as the Khorn when it is placed in a good corner. Below that point the output drops off rapidly. I use my SPUDs to cover that last octave that is not reproduced by the Jub bass bins - down to about 17 Hz. I cross over from SPUDs to Jubs using 24 dB/octave L-R at 40 Hz, thus getting the most low distortion lf that I can out of the Jubs. My pipe organ CDs, HT movies, and many other CDs/SACDs/DVD-As, etc. sound much better with that lowest missing octave reproduced by the SPUDs.

I figured I would just have to build my speakers for now. I have seen a few 1974 plans floating around that I think I might have to try and build.

Several guys on the forum here have built their own Jubilee bins--if you search, you will find the plans listed on this forum (see http://myjubs.com for a Jubilee build picture sequence). I recommend those rather than the Khorn bins. The Jubilee bins are much easier to build and they generally outperform the Khorn bins. Here is a link to the 2000 JAES article on the new Jubilee vis-a-vis the Khorn design: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/44954/423289.aspx

Do the Jubilees take up more room width wise than the La Scala's?

Yes. The Jubilee is approximately 39.5" (100cm) H X 41.5" (105cm) W x 24.3" (62cm) D. The La Scala is 35.5" (90.17cm) H x 23.75" (60.33cm) W x 24.5" (62.23cm) D.

The Jubilee bins are wider than Khorns, but note the enclosed last fold of the horn--unlike the older Khorn design that relied on a good sealed corner of the room to complete the last horn fold. Jubilees can also be used along a flat wall - however they are much larger than any typical center speaker, so you will need a room at least 15' wide to get three-across comfortably.

thought of doing a Cornscala but really do love the look of the horned bass bins by Klipsch.

The difference between horn-loaded bass designs such as the Khorn, La Scala, and Jubilee designs vs. direct radiator designs such as the Heresy, Cornwall, and "Cornscala" designs is much lower FM distortion of the previous designs. But those direct radiating designs are generally smaller boxes. Your ears are the final judge.

Chris

P.S. Note that if you have good corners to put your front L-R speakers into, you could simply build two La Scalas, but with one modification: divide the midrange-tweeter top section from the bass bin, then turn the bass bins around to face the corners. You will get about a half octave lower-end response (in-room) if you do this. This will save space, time, and money. La Scala build plans can be found on the forum.

If you place the tweeter on top of the top-hat instead of placing it in the cab, this will allow you time align the tweeter to the midrange by simply moving it back and forth on top of the top hat until the imaging improves dramatically (generally, this will be +/- 1/2 inch tolerance, and will occur when the diaphragms of the midrange and tweeter drivers align along the line of sight from your prime listening position). You will also be able to separately aim the top hat at your listening position and the bass bin at the corner. It is better to front-mount the midrange horn to its baffle instead of rear-mounting it in order to avoid the mid-horn mouth terminating looking through the thickness of the baffle. See http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/145165/1494261.aspx#1494261

You could also go to an active digital crossover (for instance, a very low-cost unit is the Behringer DCX2496) to digitally time-align the bass bin, midrange, and tweeter. This will require tri-amping (i.e. , three stereo amps per pair of La Scalas). The advantage of this is being able to time-align the bass bin in addition to the midrange and tweeter.

[Chris A]

then a whatever for the top.(Fc280 Volti horn then maybe a Klipsch 402)

If you've got the room, the K- 402 horns are really, really good all the way down to a 400 Hz crossover point (i.e., like the La Scala bass bin-midrange crossover). This is a "constant coverage" horn that is unique in its performance, IMHO.

Second to this is, IMHO, the K-510 horn which is really good down to about 1500 Hz, at which point it begins to lose pattern control in the vertical (i.e., floor/ceiling) direction. Using open-cell foam like in the QT horn design around the top and bottom of the K-510 horn will likely reduce ceiling and floor bounce below 1500 Hz.

Both of these horns require EQ on the high end (as do all constant-directivity horns) but spectacular in-room imaging improvement results are the result.

I'd also look for something like a "Quadratic Throat" horn design or an oblate spheroid design, such as the Gedlee Summa round horn design, if you don't go with either of the above-mentioned Klipsch designs. Getting constant coverage non-diffraction-type horns on the top end is a big deal on resulting sound quality.

Chris

[jwc]

I haven't read this entire thread...

But

fyrpwr ...do you mind explaining your passive?

jc

[Marvel]

Note that if you have good corners to put your front L-R speakers into, you could simply build two La Scalas, but with one modification: divide the midrange-tweeter top section from the bass bin, then turn the bass bins around to face the corners. You will get about a half octave lower-end response (in-room) if you do this. This will save space, time, and money. La Scala build plans can be found on the forum.

Build the ported LaScala; will save more "space, time, and money", and get you close to 31Hz.

Bruce

[chrapladm]

Thanks for all the helpful info Cask05.

My room is only 13.5ft across so I will have to wait on another room for the Jubilees. Although they are tempting but the ported La Scallas look like the answer. Thanks Bruce

I would build the bass bin by itself and then just add whatever top. I dont know about the 510 for the top horn mainly because of money. 510 at close to 1500 for the pair then probably around 200 atleast for shipping. Then there are the big 402's which I will save for the far future but the shipping will likely be around 4-500 or more dollars just because of the size.

Thats the main reason I mentioned the VoltiFc280's. I am sure the cornwalls are awesome but I the La Scalla to me is amazing looking. PLUS with my children(always wanting to poke everything) the La Scalla bass bins wont be harmed.

I would probably just use a Behringer 2496 or other with the tube mod. Maybe build some Tclass amps or tube amps.

But like I was saying with the La Scalla bass bin slot ported and the subs next to them they will fit in the current location of my other speakers. And because of the height addition of the La Scalla porting I could get a 402 in the far future and just slighlty angle them.

Now I thought someone said to high pass the La Scalla bin also but dont remember. I would just use the cast frame 15's from Cites because they are personally the best for the money. But when porting and changing the design I dont want to exceed xmax on these so is it still recommended to hpass or no?

This is my room. And that large black thing is the THT Lp. It is 24.5"w x 72"h x 18"d Sounds awesome but will be replaced. In that space there will a La Scalla bass bin and the sub next to it where the speaker is. Pay no attention to the couches because I always move them when listening to movies and sometimes music.Oh and as you can see I dont have great corners because the left cornerhas a window that is within 5" of the wall.

Whos site is the myjubs? Coytees The build reminded me of the Jamboree plans.

I didn't know anyone had the Jubilee plans either. ALthough both are to big for my room I will someday build some.

[Chris A]

Build the ported LaScala; will save more "space, time, and money", and get you close to 31Hz.

Bruce, I've done some looking at this. Here is a plot of the tabular response data for these mods that was posted on the forum. Does anyone see a problem with this?

[Chris A]

The idea of putting the units in the corners looks a lot more usable to me. What am I missing here?

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/5/1358189/Corner%20Speaker%20Placement%20excerpts%20PWK.pdf

Chris

[Marvel]

Build the ported LaScala; will save more "space, time, and money", and get you close to 31Hz.

Bruce, I've done some looking at this. Here is a plot of the tabular response data for these mods that was posted on the forum. Does anyone see a problem with this?

I vaguely remember seeing this graph. Who did the measurements?I just don't buy the notch being the same for all the different versions.

At this point, I would trust my ears more than measurements.

1. You do lose a slight bit of overall efficiency when you port the cabinets.

2. This will make the mids/highs a little hotter, so adustments would needs to be made.

3. The full mod also requires so eq. going into the power amps (Dennis has posted this before)

It's still cheaper than building another set of LS bass cabinets (and not nearly as difficult) and takes up less room.

Bruce

[Chris A]

Who did the measurements?I just don't buy the notch being the same for all the different versions.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/65188/638314.aspx#638314 - about 2/3 the way down this list. I believe that these measurements were also replcated in other posts but without the explanatory heading.

Okay - I think that I understand what you are saying Bruce - you believe that the La Scalas with separated top-sections would need to be made from scratch, whereas existing La Scalas could be used as-is.

I had come to the conclusion that our gentleman from Adelaide was going to build his own in any case due to the rather obscene prices on Klipsch gear (even used) in that part of the world--for reasons that are still a bit unclear to me but nevertheless a consistent story from those living in that neck of the woods.

Maybe I am in error in that assumption...?

Chris

[Marvel]

Sheesh... I posted the figures, but didn't make the chart. So you are talking about the dip at 40Hz?

I tell you what I will do... I'll finally build the boxes underneath my LS (I've been perfectly happy with them the way they are, even watching movies), borrow some test gear and measure them in my room.

We'll see if I get the same dip.

Bruce

[Chris A]

So you are talking about the dip at 40Hz?

Yes - it got my attention. EQing that out (...if it is true...) would be a pretty interesting job, but it could be done. The concern is that, if it is true, then trying to EQ it might result in very high distortion. That's my concern.

We'll see if I get the same dip.

I would bet that we probably won't see that dip if you did, but I wouldn't do it just because of the numbers posted in a thread years ago...if you are happy, then you're happy with them. Don't change them unless you want to.

Chris

[Islander]

I will never be able to afford some Jubilees(although I dont know how much they retail for either)

The price in the US is around $7000 delivered.

[DrWho]

The measurements of the ported lascala were measured in room...and sadly there was a huge room mode null right in the area of interest. Minor variations in the speaker and/or microphone location could easily account for the differences noted. That's not to say that the claimed differences aren't true, but that the data isn't sufficient to "prove" the validity of the experiment. I remember running numbers on this a while ago and determined that you should expect a small dip in the response just above the tuning frequency...

Anyone around Chicago wanna mess around with the mod? I'd love to do some outdoor measurements on this, and even figure out a more finely tuned EQ for it too...

[chrapladm]

For some reason I am not getting updates on this thread. Anyways. Thanks everyone for the info so far.

And yes I will be building my own La Scalla's. The 1977 drawings are what I will be going by. I will probably add the ported bottom to the La Scallas also. That being said even if I didn't add the slot port I would have built something to raise the La Scallas about the same height as the addition. As you can see in the pic my right LS bin will be going right in the corner where the THT Lp is now. So I am sure there will be plenty of room gain due to the position. And when I raise the LS bin I can then be able to place whatever horn I would want in the future on top and not interfere with the sub next to it.

[Coytee]

The 1977 drawings are what I will be going by

My 2 cents? If I were you, I'd do what ever it takes to NOT use 3/4" plywood unless I was going to double it up on the outside or add internal braces. One of the main things they wanted to fix with the LaScala II was the sides of the original design. They have a strong propensity to resonate and muddy up the bass a bit, noticably so. If you could use 1" or put the wedgies in the mouth or something.....anything.... to fix that, you'll be glad you did.

[Chris A]

If I were you, I'd do what ever it takes to NOT use 3/4" plywood unless I was going to double it up on the outside or add internal braces. One of the main things they wanted to fix with the La Scala II was the sides of the original design. They have a strong propensity to resonate and muddy up the bass a bit, noticeably so. If you could use 1" or put the wedgies in the mouth or something.....anything.... to fix that, you'll be glad you did.

I think the plotted graphs above show the results of doing just that...I'm a little surprised that the LS II didn't go further with stiffening the bass bin. It would make them a bit heavier and add about $20 in MDF to the cost, but the resulting performance improvement would speak for itself.

My $0.02... [8-|]

Chris

[DrWho]

A couple Pilgrimages ago they talked about the new LS II and how they ended up with 1" sides instead of braces...the way it is assembled makes the tolerance stackup of the braces not work as well as the thicker outter piece. Also, when originally designed, the 3/4" was thick enough, but marginal, and so over time it will eventually become audible. The 1" is supposed to be overkill.

[chrapladm]

I would be going with 3/4" probably marine ply because it is readilly available and isn't to horribly expensive. And it does have a very nice sides to start. Now I could try and get some 1" for atleast the exterior sides but will have to see what the expense is.

I never even thought of using MDF for the LS bins but it would be cheaper. And 1" on all exterior sides would be cheap also. But I guess then I will have tp learn to veneer.

Think I might just stick with plywood. But either way the sides wont be flexing.