JubScala?

[DrWho]

Thanks you Dr. but that be VERRRRRRRRRRY out of oridinairy

Agreed. Btw, I went through some more of my music collection and the smallest crest factor of music I enjoy was 15dB. Some of the very dynamic Cirque du Soleil is pushing 35dB and 45dB, and then most of my music is pushing 20dB to 25dB. Phil Collins is 23dB between his voice and the percussion. Pink Floyd is right around 20dB for most of their stuff, with some tracks pushing more. Blue man group is usually around 30dB, but then a lot of their recordings are clipped (so it could be more).

You know you have dynamic music when you gotta crank the volume to hear the inner detail over the noise floor in the room

[ClaudeJ1]

SIX?????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kind of say it all

And what exactly is that telling us?

is this exparimental KLIPSCH because how can they stay in bussiness selling SIX also a// ifi\i\\ its' good it will sell more then SIX

Not experimental, but just special order from the Pro Theater division of Klipsch. It's not in the catalogs, but fully engineered by Roy Delgado. Only 20 of us bore witness to it's birth and all of us went for various variations of the pro stuff, be they MWM, Jubilee, or LaScala bottoms, with some sort of horn or double 18" subs.

[Coytee]

is this exparimental KLIPSCH because how can they stay in bussiness selling SIX also a// ifi\i\\ its' good it will sell more then SIX

Well gee... don't tell that to the first six people who bought Klipschorns... or the first six people who bought Corvette's or the first six people who bought lightbulbs.... I did however, have an unsolicted email just today from someone who's looking at doing just this (JubeScalas) with his brother... maybe we'll break seven! I wonder what you'd think if you heard it.

Ultimately, you have to start somewhere don't you?

To clear the record for you, this isn't 'experimental'. It's been fully engineered in the lab by Klipsch.

The original idea for the JubeScala came up when I was thinking about what to possibly put between my Jubilee's. I don't have the space for a third and wanted a similar center.

Realizing that the LaScala bass bin goes higher than the Khorn bass bin, I emailed Roy about maybe putting a 402 on top of the LaScala and would it work? He mulled it over and felt it would be a good match indeed. He doodled around with it in his chamber and came out with the recipe to make it sound (damn) good!

Viola, we now have the JubeScala to enjoy.

[SSnyder]

that a jubescalla in your pict?

[Islander]

Thanks you Dr. but that be VERRRRRRRRRRY out of oridinairy

Perhaps you're basing your belief on some of the recent CDs that were recorded at near-clipping levels from start to finish. Some of those have sounded so bad that large numbers of buyers returned them and got their money back.

Most CDs do have a fairly wide dynamic range.

[Islander]

is this exparimental KLIPSCH because how can they stay in bussiness selling SIX also a// ifi\i\\ its' good it will sell more then SIX

Klipsch does not sell JubScalas. They're an upgrade to the La Scala that was engineered at Klipsch and built by a few enthusiasts who like the idea of the Jubilee sound, but find the smaller size and price of the JubScala to be more practical for them.

If you're familiar with William Gibson's latest book, Zero History (a longshot, I'm guessing), you'll understand that they could be described, along with the Jubilee, as a "secret brand". You don't have to be rich to buy them, you have to know about them, and not many people do, thus their exclusive nature.

That's a 510 JubScala in my avatar, with the smaller K510 tweeter horn. There are also 402 JubScalas, with the much larger K402 tweeter horn.

[Islander]

I'd be interested in seeing how one would stiffin up the bass bin. Does anyone remember a step by step intruction post to do this?

Making the sides of the La Scala bass bin stiffer does improve bass response, as shown by the La Scala II, but the shape and size of the LS (original and II model) dictate that its bass response will go no lower than a certain point, which is why most LS owners use a subwoofer with them. The sub can be dialed in to give a smooth and deep bass response as it works with the La Scalas, so the stiffening of the bass horn is not essential in that case.

[ClaudeJ1]

I'd be interested in seeing how one would stiffin up the bass bin. Does anyone remember a step by step intruction post to do this?

Making the sides of the La Scala bass bin stiffer does improve bass response, as shown by the La Scala II, but the shape and size of the LS (original and II model) dictate that its bass response will go no lower than a certain point, which is why most LS owners use a subwoofer with them. The sub can be dialed in to give a smooth and deep bass response as it works with the La Scalas, so the stiffening of the bass horn is not essential in that case.

You still need a sub either way. Besides, even Khorn and Jubilee owners all have subs now, usually tapped horns like the Danley DTS-10, SPUD, or like Kevin Harmon, a pair of Double 18" Klipsch Theater subs like the KPT 684 or 884's for movies.

[Islander]

Btw, I feel a sense of defensiveness coming from those that enjoy the Dx38. I am certainly not trying to imply that you can't enjoy good audio from the Dx38. Knowing more about the unit and some of the limitations shouldn't change one's enjoyment of the unit, but it might help those looking to take things to the next level.

Also, broad band noise really isn't the issue when you start operating closer to the noise floor. Power supply artifacts become much more pronounced (non-linear mixing and digital spurs) and the electronics won't be as linear either (so more distortion). It's hard to measure the distortion at these levels though because the noise is louder than the distortion...but that doesn't mean it isn't audible. 20dB is a very generic rule of thumb concerning masking. I personally prefer to design so that you don't have to rely on masking in the first place.

Klipsch enthusiasts/experimenters often seem to be a hybrid of innovators and traditionalists, who sort of want the latest but sort of want to be old school at the same time. 20th century drivers and horns combined with 21st century electronics is just one example. Speaking only for myself, I got psyched up to get the Dx38 and want to be happy with it for a long time. I don't want to even think about it being considered obsolete, for at least a few more years.

I might look into one of those new Yamaha processors sometime in the future, but would one of them offer a dramatic improvement over a Dx for home listening? For pro use, you want what's current and ideally is under warranty, since it's in daily use and has to work, or it will cost someone maybe a lot of money, but would replacing the Dx with a more modern processor make for much better sound in my living room? With top listening levels being under 110dB and more typically under 100dB, does gain ranging even come into play?

As for noise issues, the output knobs on the Dx allow the noise floor to be brought right down very easily. I don't know whether they're reducing the gain (does the processor have any gain?) or attenuating the signal, but with the amps I'm using, I've still got plenty of volume when the processor output is dialed down to reduce the noise floor to the point of inaudibility from the listening position.

[Coytee]

that a jubescalla in your pict?

To narrowly and exactly answer your question, "no" that is not a JubeScala in my picture, presuming you were inquiring about my current avatar (since I usually change it back to my dogs). The JubeScala idea doesn't include the two MWM bass bins sitting under it (although it might make an interesting MonsterScala concept!!)

To perhaps better answer your question... the picture does have the JubeScala parts in it, namely the LaScala cabinet with the K402 (or 510) sitting on top of it. I was playing around creating a 3 (and 4) way monster for kicks one afternoon. I was using the two MWM bass bins, the LaScala bass bin (only) and the K402 on top. Or, put differently, I was using the JubeScala with the MWM's under it.

I also played around with the MWM's and the full 3-way LaScala. Not visible in the picture, I ALSO played around with the MWM's and some EV speakers.

Was a fun day. You should stop by to hear it someday if you are ever in the Knoxville area.

[Edgar]

I might look into one of those new Yamaha processors sometime in the future, but would one of them offer a dramatic improvement over a Dx for home listening? For pro use, you want what's current and ideally is under warranty, since it's in daily use and has to work, or it will cost someone maybe a lot of money, but would replacing the Dx with a more modern processor make for much better sound in my living room? With top listening levels being under 110dB and more typically under 100dB, does gain ranging even come into play?

I want to clarify something that I wrote earlier about the gain-ranging ADCs. Back in the late 1990s, when I was comparing the KT gain-ranging ADCs with the newer single-range ADCs, those KT converters were among their premium products. We are not talking about bad-sounding converters, by any means. We are talking about the difference between 99.98% and 99.99% -- the gain-ranging was only audible with extremely critical listening tests, and many people could not hear it at all. So if you're concerned that the DX38 converters sound bad, don't be.

Greg

[Islander]

I want to clarify something that I wrote earlier about the gain-ranging ADCs. Back in the late 1990s, when I was comparing the KT gain-ranging ADCs with the newer single-range ADCs, those KT converters were among their premium products. We are not talking about bad-sounding converters, by any means. We are talking about the difference between 99.98% and 99.99% -- the gain-ranging was only audible with extremely critical listening tests, and many people could not hear it at all. So if you're concerned that the DX38 converters sound bad, don't be.

Thanks for that, Greg! [Y]

[Wrinkles]

that a jubescalla in your pict?

SSnyder,

Here is a great link within the Klipsch Forum that has information and pictures of the various JubScala setups.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/120876/1218713.aspx#1218713

Wrinkles

[DrWho]

I might look into one of those new Yamaha processors sometime in the future, but would one of them offer a dramatic improvement over a Dx for home listening? For pro use, you want what's current and ideally is under warranty, since it's in daily use and has to work, or it will cost someone maybe a lot of money, but would replacing the Dx with a more modern processor make for much better sound in my living room? With top listening levels being under 110dB and more typically under 100dB, does gain ranging even come into play?

I want to clarify something that I wrote earlier about the gain-ranging ADCs. Back in the late 1990s, when I was comparing the KT gain-ranging ADCs with the newer single-range ADCs, those KT converters were among their premium products. We are not talking about bad-sounding converters, by any means. We are talking about the difference between 99.98% and 99.99% -- the gain-ranging was only audible with extremely critical listening tests, and many people could not hear it at all. So if you're concerned that the DX38 converters sound bad, don't be.

Greg

My sentiments exactly, but I might call it closer to 1% than 0.01% level of difference...and I only say that because it was easy to hear the difference between the Yamaha and the EV when doing both side by side. In stock form though, both are gonna fall a bit short in the inner detail department that hardcore tube/analog guys are usually striving for. I believe current digital technology is good enough to match tubes/analog, but I've yet to see an actual implementation doing it. I personnaly prefer the digital sound to the artifacts you get with vinyl/tubes, which is why I go that route, but I know there are some striving for both. I know there are some guys that prefer the vinyl/tubes/passive route and I think that some of that measurable difference is in the gain structure and noise floor department (even if you're not hearing distinct hiss at the listening position). Anyways, when you get to higher levels of performance, the minor nuances start becomming major factors in decision making because all of the major stuff is taken care of with all the options. So even though you're talking 1% or 0.01%, it seems bigger when making gear choices....

[SSnyder]

Was a fun day. You should stop by to hear it someday if you are ever in the Knoxville area.

could juss hear from hi-way 275 lol

[Marvel]

Besides, even Khorn and Jubilee owners all have subs now...

Probably not the truth.

Bruce

[Islander]

The original idea for the JubeScala came up when I was thinking about what to possibly put between my Jubilee's. I don't have the space for a third and wanted a similar center.

Realizing that the LaScala bass bin goes higher than the Khorn bass bin, I emailed Roy about maybe putting a 402 on top of the LaScala and would it work? He mulled it over and felt it would be a good match indeed. He doodled around with it in his chamber and came out with the recipe to make it sound (***) good!

So you're the one responsible for me spending all that money (and enjoying all that great sound)! Thanks!!! [Y]

And many thanks to Roy Delgado, too!

[Wrinkles]

I do NOT have subs on my 2 Channel JubScala system.

I DO have a sub on my 2 CHannel Home theater LaScala system.

[Coytee]

So you're the one responsible for me spending all that money (and enjoying all that great sound)! Thanks!!!

I think it would have happened sooner or later. I did a search on 'JubeScala' as well as 'JubScala'. The earliest reference I'm finding is this, dated October 2006.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/80499/802812.aspx#802812

I had a memory of a different first post on them... oh well.

[Islander]

I do NOT have subs on my 2 Channel JubScala system.

I DO have a sub on my 2 CHannel Home theater LaScala system.

With my JubScala system, I've used a 500-watt Paradigm sub, a 100-watt Yamaha sub (while the Paradigm was out for service), and no sub. My findings were that a sub was definitely needed. The small sub was adequate for music, but not for movies. The bigger sub is great for everything.