jwc Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 When I sub with my LS II's, I XO at 50Hz. Seems to work fine as my scalas go pretty low in my room and sound great. I was just curious. Anyone see any other reason besides XO cutoff to subs? I know there is an edge with distortion curves....I'm waiting to hear back from Roy in another thread about polars. That would be interesting. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 The K402 is a tractrix horn all the way through its expansion...Exponential and Tractrix look similar near the throat, but it's definitely a tractrix the whole way (Roy would have it no other way) No, it really isn't but I might understand your assumption if you didn't have one in your hands to measure. Well it's NOT an assumption, but straight from the mouth of Roy. He even chimed up in this thread too. [] I'll let you take it up with him since I think it is more of a semantics argument anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 What's straight from the "mouth of Roy" is that it's modified tractrix. "Modified" means modified, which means it's not straight up tractrix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Now it is my turn to speak for Roy re: tractrix. Roy has pointed out that the "tractrix refers to the "area" of expansion. 1. Consequently there can be more than a single contour (along one dimension) that can "multiply up" to the same area (that is expanding). The big hint is that some contours are apparently "better" than others. If the throat and mouth are symmetric, then ignore what I have said. 2. It has also been stated that their design is a "modified" tractrix. He has been very careful about reminding us of this difference. 3. As understand things, the "conventional" tractrix is not a CD horn, whereas the "modified" tractrix is a CD horn (level as a function of frequency is not constant when measured on axis, rather power measured over a solid angle is somewhat constant). 4. What the specific modification in shape/contour/ area is in order to do this magic is proprietary. I suspect a good deal of effort, thought, and prototypes were required (i.e., engineering ....). That said, remember that Roy has certain weaknesses (bass fishing, blueberries and ice cream). Perhaps he has his price .... Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 What's straight from the "mouth of Roy" is that it's modified tractrix. "Modified" means modified, which means it's not straight up tractrix. Peace, brothers...I do not wish to appear to be anything but inquisitive. Many folks apparently believe that the 402 is a "straight tractrix" (i.e., one tractrix curve for each axis of the 402): I don't believe it is. I would like to know if the 402 design uses some sort of "rubber throat" or "reverse rubber throat" design and why. Why, for instance, is it "modified". Effective use of the English language is difficult enough as is. My apologies if I provoked any argument - that was not my aim. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrinkles Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 My room is 18 feet deep, 15 feet across...I can only put Jubilees on the 15 foot side in front of 2 windows, one speaker's left edge would be about 1'2" from the left corner due to a bookcase and the other about the same from the other corner as I have builtin shelving floor to ceiling for a length of 9 feet into the room. Ceiling is 10 feet. Is low frequency development in this setup going to be my limiting factor? Or with a chair or sofa on the back walk that has a semi dead reflection factor also going to be major factor? I guess to reword the question, are the Jubilees too big for a room this size and would a JubScala be better in this situation? I do not want to decide on a Jubilee and find it unmanageable in a room this size. Thanks, Wrinkles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 In my opinion Jubs will work great in your room. The 10' ceiling ht is a very good thing. I have mine about the same distance from the corner due to a built in window box, and don't feel I am losing much if any bass. rigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I'd offer this thought 1. If you can fit JubeScalas somewhere then you can fit the Jubilee and have better bass even if it's away from a corner. 2. Only you can decide if it's too big for your tastes, but if you are contemplating JubeScalas, then I'd daresay it's a near draw? 3. You near enough Dallas/Waco/Austin to hear one of the current pair and decide for yourself if you have to have them? 4. The room in basement where mine will be going is about 15' x 24 (I'm good on the 15 but guessing on the 24) and has 9' ceiling. I don't have any reservation on putting them down there (nor any choice, via the wife [*-)]) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spongeworthy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Any idea where the closest Jubs are to Raleigh, NC? I need to hear a pair before I go any further on this. If anyone close is willing to let me have a listen, I would be most grateful. I also need to see if I can fit the bass bins up to my attic but I'm pretty sure I can. I have my space in the attic in a 18' x 16' foot room with clipped walls. It's a surprisingly good sounding room but I'm running out of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrinkles Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 In response: 1. If you can fit JubeScalas somewhere then you can fit the Jubilee and have better bass even if it's away from a corner. (Better Bass is good) 2. Only you can decide if it's too big for your tastes, but if you are contemplating JubeScalas, then I'd daresay it's a near draw? (It is not the size, but the adequacy of the room as in my proximity to the HF horns being an overpowering stage and the low frequency needing more space to develop) 3. You near enough Dallas/Waco/Austin to hear one of the current pair and decide for yourself if you have to have them? (Arlington Texas,is where I had my gallon drink of the kool-aid, Jubilees were about 2 months old) Thanks, Wrinkles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 What's straight from the "mouth of Roy" is that it's modified tractrix. "Modified" means modified, which means it's not straight up tractrix. Peace, brothers...I do not wish to appear to be anything but inquisitive. Many folks apparently believe that the 402 is a "straight tractrix" (i.e., one tractrix curve for each axis of the 402): I don't believe it is. I would like to know if the 402 design uses some sort of "rubber throat" or "reverse rubber throat" design and why. Why, for instance, is it "modified". Effective use of the English language is difficult enough as is. My apologies if I provoked any argument - that was not my aim. Chris peace to you as well my brother. tractrix describes area expansion. it must be looked at in two dims. the profile of a curve does not a tractrix make. this is true for exponential, hyperbolics, conicals, etc. these are equations that describe area expansion. the 402 and almost all of the horns i have done (except the very first tractrix horn i did for the quartet/chorus/forte ii;these are pure tractrix horns) are modified tractrix. wooly tom is correct. it is this mod that makes the horns that i play with work how we like them to work. basically, i can't say what the mod is. now wooly tom is also correct that i fish, grow blueberries and have been known to tip a gallon of ice cream back. i just saw where humminbird released a fish finder that uses their Side Imaging Technology; very very nice unit............. in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 My room is 18 feet deep, 15 feet across...I can only put Jubilees on the 15 foot side in front of 2 windows, one speaker's left edge would be about 1'2" from the left corner due to a bookcase and the other about the same from the other corner as I have builtin shelving floor to ceiling for a length of 9 feet into the room. Ceiling is 10 feet. Is low frequency development in this setup going to be my limiting factor? Or with a chair or sofa on the back walk that has a semi dead reflection factor also going to be major factor? I guess to reword the question, are the Jubilees too big for a room this size ummm....in a word.....no. and would a JubScala be better in this situation? I do not want to decide on a Jubilee and find it unmanageable in a room this size. Thanks, Wrinkles in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblio Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 i just saw where humminbird released a fish finder that uses their Side Imaging Technology; very very nice unit.. I was just wondering the other day if and when fish finders/depth finders would use technology which is old hat in the airborne Radar business. It's not really rocket science, just requires some decent signal processing heretofor not available on small rugged chips. Cheap easy to program DSP chips make it a moot point now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Any idea where the closest Jubs are to Raleigh, NC? I'd daresay that Mike & I are the closest to you. He's in Maryville and I'm in Greenback (both just outside Knoxville). You are more than welcome to visit and have a jam session...fair warning though... you're wallet forever resent me after hearing them [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Any idea where the closest Jubs are to Raleigh, NC? 2-way La Scala w/ 511/902 I'm becoming confused as to who's interested in Jubilees, JubeScalas, FrankenJubes or RoyScalas...[] So, I wanted to add this for anyone that might care... I also have a pair of LaScalas although only one is in the listening room downstairs (other in garage). BUT... if someone wanted to hear the 402 on top of the LaScala and then go upstairs to hear the full Jubilee in a different room, we can do that too. Fair warning, the room downstairs is tile floor, block walls with firring strips and open joists on the ceiling with some insulation mixed in. It should be a fairly reflective room I'd think so there'd be some major room differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Roy, Please check your email (your home address). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spongeworthy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I'm becoming confused as to who's interested in Jubilees, JubeScalas, FrankenJubes or RoyScalas... So, I wanted to add this for anyone that might care... I also have a pair of LaScalas although only one is in the listening room downstairs (other in garage). BUT... if someone wanted to hear the 402 on top of the LaScala and then go upstairs to hear the full Jubilee in a different room, we can do that too. Fair warning, the room downstairs is tile floor, block walls with firring strips and open joists on the ceiling with some insulation mixed in. It should be a fairly reflective room I'd think so there'd be some major room differences. That is very cool to offer up an audition. It's one that I am going to take you up on. I'll try to schedule something around a near future business trip to Asheville if your schedule permits that, of course. I am also interested in the Jubilee and no other variation. And as far as the money goes, it's only going to cost me the cost of the speakers plus a screened-in porch and a set of french doors so no worries. Thanks for the offer and I can't wait to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 When I sub with my LS II's, I XO at 50Hz. Seems to work fine as my scalas go pretty low in my room and sound great. I was just curious.Anyone see any other reason besides XO cutoff to subs? I know there is an edge with distortion curves....I'm waiting to hear back from Roy in another thread about polars. That would be interesting.jcjcpipes,try to take your lf horn as low as possible. the distortion characteristics between a direct radiator and horn loaded radiator is quite noticeable. in order to begin to approach the same distortion characteristics you need the the sub to have about the same radiating area as the horn mouth you just crossed from. in Christ, because of God's grace,roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 agchris,i answered you back.in Christ, because of God's grace,roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Cool tip. Thanks. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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