Telefunken is there a better sounding 12ax7?

[kuisis]

I am sitting here listening to Taj Mahal through my 222C and trying every 12ax7 I have. I'm sure its a far fewer number than many of you. I have tried Bugle Boys, German Amprex,EI goldpin, and teles. Nothing sounds quite so good. I was wondering what opinions others have.

Tom

[garymd]

Hey Tom. I think the answer is, it depends.

I prefer the Telefunken 12AX7 in my Scott 299b over anything else I've tried. In my BBX, I prefer the detail I get with the Bugle Boy over the slightly darker and more lush sound of the Telefunken. In my VRDs, I am currently using Bugle Boys although I probably couldn't tell them apart from Telefunkens or even the $5 tubes that came with the amps.

[kuisis]

I'm glad I'm not alone Gary. Perhaps its that Mullard rectifier I bought from you a few years ago! I will put on some big railroad blues and crank it. What's your favorite version ?

[oldtimer]

Telefunken is just so cool to say. It just rolls off the tongue, and speaks to englishes debt to german as a language. That being said, my favorite jazz recordings inevitably used telefunken mics in the studio.

[kuisis]

I guess you could say natural, if that's not a cop out. It's hard to describe, but it just sounds better to me, and yes it sounds better than saying I love my Realistic lifetime 12ax7!

[garymd]

Tom,

Do you know how much I regret selling all of those Mullard rectifier tubes for $35 a piece? A lot.

Big Railroad Blues................April 26, 1971, Fillmore East, New York from the Skull & Roses LP. That was my first Dead album and that side with Bertha/Mama Tried/Big Railroad Blues/Playin' In The Band was what got me hooked on the Dead all those years ago so I have a soft spot for that version.

[kuisis]

Gary:

Probably almost as much as I regret only buying one! I was listening to that version on Sunday, I just got the remastered Rhino box set, I know it's not vinyl, but it souned sweet just the same.

Tom

[Audible Nectar]

The Telefunken 12AX7 is a marvelous tube, especially in my rebuilt McIntosh gear (MX110 and MC30s). It seems like they were made for each other....nothing seems to bring out the midrange in that gear like the Teles do. The outputs also play a big role, but no matter what outputs I use, that setup isn't the same without those Tele smoothplates.

In most other gears, however, I prefer the Amperex 12AX7. ANY of the Herleen, Holland manufactured 12AX7s are great tubes - from the early D getter versions from the 1950's (outstanding for vocals), the early 60's versions with the wide short plate and large O getter (my favorite Amperex 12AX7 of all of them) to the later 60's version with the smaller O getter. I consider these the "universal" 12AX7 - they sound good in any circuit you put them in, and they possess a combination of top to bottom extended response and an organic, liquid quality that sounds clean and unrestricted.

As for the Grateful Dead, I seem to prefer most live material on the VRD/Cornwall setup, although I must admit that some studio recordings sound very good on the vintage Mac/Belle Klipsch - the MOFI edition of "From The Mars Hotel" is completely delicious.

[JBryan]

Telefunken 12AX7s came stock in the 222c and one may assume that the amp could have been 'voiced' with them. In my experience, I found the Tele 12AX7s to be more detailed and a bit neutral compared to the Amperex 12AX7s which sounded more lush and musical. I still use all the Scott-labeled Telefunken tubes that came with my 222c and prefer them to the Amperex's in my DAC but I liked the Amperex tubes in the phono preamp and to a lessor extent, the driver stage of the amps that used them. As with everyone else who responded, its really a matter of preference. If it helps, I found that in general, the Telefunken 12AX7s tend to be quieter and last longer but YMMV.

[Gilbert]

The smooth plate telefunken 12AX7 is my personal favorite. I've also dropped some serious coin on the Telef. ECC803S tubes as well, but they weren't worth the price I paid, but they still sound excellent.

I also like Buggle Boys, as well as the older Siemens (12AX7/E83CC/ECC803S). God, when I think of the money I've gone through searching for my sound, eeegads!! I better go.

[mike stehr]

It really depends on the circuit you park them in.

I have a Admiral 6BQ5 PP console amplifier that converted the driver stage to 12AX7 paraphase from a Dynaco circuit.

I favor Mullard 12AX7's in this circuit. I have Amperex orange globe 12AX7's I tried. I like them, but they are a wee bit shouty in the mids. I've tried RCA and Sylvania forms of 12AX7, and they seem more ratty sounding.

I have a quite a few Telefunken 12AX7's, older and newer, smooth and rib plate types. I have tried them in the ol' Dynamiral, and they seem kinda dark sounding from what I recall......I may have to give it another shot, but I like the warm midrange of the Mullard 12AX7. (In this circuit.)

I've been using Mullard CV/4004's lately in the amplifier. A little drier sound than the common Mullard 12AX7, but I like the extra detail them seem to invoke.

[Groomlakearea51]

I'm using the NOS RCA's 12AX7's in a Sansui AU-111, but they sound ok to me. I am using Telefunken 12BH7's and a Telefunken 6AQ8 though. The output 6L6GC's are NOS Westinghouse.

[Audio Flynn]

Telefunken 12AX7s came stock in the 222c and one may assume that the amp could have been 'voiced' with them. In my experience, I found the Tele 12AX7s to be more detailed and a bit neutral compared to the Amperex 12AX7s which sounded more lush and musical. I still use all the Scott-labeled Telefunken tubes that came with my 222c and prefer them to the Amperex's in my DAC but I liked the Amperex tubes in the phono preamp and to a lessor extent, the driver stage of the amps that used them. As with everyone else who responded, its really a matter of preference. If it helps, I found that in general, the Telefunken 12AX7s tend to be quieter and last longer but YMMV.

A topic not discussed in some time.

I go with "stock" tubes in my BB and VRD for the same reason.

[garymd]

Telefunken 12AX7s came stock in the 222c and one may assume that the amp could have been 'voiced' with them. In my experience, I found the Tele 12AX7s to be more detailed and a bit neutral compared to the Amperex 12AX7s which sounded more lush and musical. I still use all the Scott-labeled Telefunken tubes that came with my 222c and prefer them to the Amperex's in my DAC but I liked the Amperex tubes in the phono preamp and to a lessor extent, the driver stage of the amps that used them. As with everyone else who responded, its really a matter of preference. If it helps, I found that in general, the Telefunken 12AX7s tend to be quieter and last longer but YMMV.

A topic not discussed in some time.

I go with "stock" tubes in my BB and VRD for the same reason.

Rick,

If you are using the stock tubes in the phono section of your BB, you are missing out on one of the most significant improvements available to you. It took a bit of testing and some fairly expensive tubes but the difference is substantial. Start with a nice 12AT7 in your V1 slot and see what happens.

Edit: Of course this comment doesn't hold true if you bought the BB with the NOS tube upgrade that Mark offered for a short time.

[Audio Flynn]

Telefunken 12AX7s came stock in the 222c and one may assume that the amp could have been 'voiced' with them. In my experience, I found the Tele 12AX7s to be more detailed and a bit neutral compared to the Amperex 12AX7s which sounded more lush and musical. I still use all the Scott-labeled Telefunken tubes that came with my 222c and prefer them to the Amperex's in my DAC but I liked the Amperex tubes in the phono preamp and to a lessor extent, the driver stage of the amps that used them. As with everyone else who responded, its really a matter of preference. If it helps, I found that in general, the Telefunken 12AX7s tend to be quieter and last longer but YMMV.

A topic not discussed in some time.

I go with "stock" tubes in my BB and VRD for the same reason.

And, you save yourself a lot of grief too! :-)

Rick,

If you are using the stock tubes in the phono section of
your BB, you are missing out on one of the most significant
improvements available to you. It took a bit of testing and some
fairly expensive tubes but the difference is substantial. Start with a
nice 12AT7 in your V1 slot and see what happens.

Edit: Of course
this comment doesn't hold true if you bought the BB with the NOS tube
upgrade that Mark offered for a short time.

===============================

I guess with being away from home 8 nights a month for work, kids, corpoate buy out, 25 year anniversery tripo to St Lucia in one week, and other wierd $chtuff I have not found the time.

My deal is with myself and Mr. Otsby is not to make myself nuts changing componets and sub components. Listen to the music find fault in the recordings not the system.

The engineer in me wants to restrip all the wire internal in the Belles, a new needle for my grado gold and to retorque my Belle woofers (this thought really amkes Craig nuts). Music is so satidfying I just cannot power down the system and get off the couch to do anything signifianct.

I do need to try somethign different in the BB phono though.[8-|]

For the listening I remain unfatigued for vinyl and digital for hours on end when I am home. Only about 3 hours tonight.

Thanks to Gary and Mark for the thoughts.

[jt1stcav]

It really depends on the circuit you park them in.

I have a Admiral 6BQ5 PP console amplifier that converted the driver stage to 12AX7 paraphase from a Dynaco circuit.

I favor Mullard 12AX7's in this circuit. I have Amperex orange globe 12AX7's I tried. I like them, but they are a wee bit shouty in the mids. I've tried RCA and Sylvania forms of 12AX7, and they seem more ratty sounding.

I have a quite a few Telefunken 12AX7's, older and newer, smooth and rib plate types. I have tried them in the ol' Dynamiral, and they seem kinda dark sounding from what I recall......I may have to give it another shot, but I like the warm midrange of the Mullard 12AX7. (In this circuit.)

I've been using Mullard CV/4004's lately in the amplifier. A little drier sound than the common Mullard 12AX7, but I like the extra detail them seem to invoke.

Mike, if your listening to the ficticious music of Hannah Montana thru your Admiral, you might as well just burn up some Electro Harmonix 12AX7s and save your precious Mullards and Telefunkens for real music![]

FWIW, years ago I rolled a pair of NOS '83 JAN Philips 12AX7WAs in place of stock Sovtek bottles that came with an AMC preamp I had, and the differences were not subtle. To me, a clearer, more open soundstage was present with the JAN Philips...I have no experience with Teles or Mullard equivalents, so I can't compare them with the newer Philips. IMO I feel the American made Philips are sleepers and probably underrated in the world of 12AX7s...but that's just me thinkin'...