greg928gts Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I wish you all could have heard what I heard tonight. Those that know me, know that I'm not a braggart, nor am I easily impressed by an audio system. It takes a lot for me to be impressed enough with something to recommend it to anyone else. To that end, all you La Scala owners out there should go cut the tops off your La Scalas right now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Two years ago when I started this restoration, I thought about trying this, not knowing how it would sound. I couldn't have imagined how perfect the sound would be. This system, in this room, is nicer sounding than any Khorns or La Scalas I've heard. "EDIT" - at least from the bass and mids. I've heard better highs from the "Mkhorns" www.dcchomes.com/Mkhorn6.html This is my listening room at my shop. The main area is about 12' x 14', with concrete floors, a small rug on the floor, and large curtains hanging over the windows. The equipment is a AH! Njoe Tjoeb CD player, MSB DAC, Creek OBH-10 remote attenuated volume control, Dynaco Mark III's, and the rosewood La Scalas www.dcchomes.com/LaScala5.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 I made it so the tops could mount either way on the bass bins, partly for looks, and partly so that the bass bins could be turned into the corners and the top horns facing out. Note how the grain of the rosewood flows from the top horn down to the bass bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 It took a few minutes to get the distance from the walls just right, and also the angle of the speakers for imaging. But once I locked them in, WOW! No . . . DOUBLE WOW!! What I thought would happen is that the high end would be too loud compared to the bass and I would have to attenuate them at the crossover. But that's not the case at all. What actually happened is the bass got deeper and louder, and the midrange horn was free to produce all the clarity and detail without being mashed in with the midrange that comes from the bass bin. I also thought that the mid-bass (the mids coming from the bass bin) would be lacking. But what is happening is the mid-bass is coming out just fine, but from a different angle than usually happens with La Scalas. I'm so impressed with the sound of this system I can't wait to build a pair for my living room at home. I think a bigger room would be even better for this setup. My listening room at my shop is really a bit small for La Scalas, even if you're into near-field listening. 12' x 16' or 14' x 18' would really open these up. You just would not believe how much bass is coming out of these babies! I should mention that these La Scalas have ALK Universal networks and Crites cast-frame woofers. Both of these upgrades are just terrific and I highly recommend them. Here's a pic of the spacing from the walls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2toobs Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Wow Greg, those are beautiful!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Coupla other things. These are SOLD to a lucky gentleman in England. I first tried this system the regular way and they sounded very good. The deep bass was noteworthy. I've heard quite a few La Scala systems over the years and I've probably owned at least 40 pairs, so I know the La Scala sound perhaps better than any other speaker. These don't sound like La Scalas. They are so smooth and "hi fi" sounding, just amazing. When I turned the bass bins around it just got a lot better! The ALK Universal networks are just terrific. I'm going to have to get a pair for my Khorns now. I've ordered networks from Al twice now, and both times I've been overwhelmed by the size and quality of them. It's nice when you pay good money for something and then it shows up and it's even more than you expected. They are worth more than he charges for them. Without hesitation, I would recommend the Bob Crites cast-frame woofer upgrade for the La Scala and Khorn. Old stock K33's sell on ebay for good money all the time, making the net cost of the change very minimal. It's a no-brainer really. The sound quality is noticeably better, especially after a break-in period. Sorry for the poor quality pics, my room is dark right now and my camera is not taking good low-light pictures for some reason (new development). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 I'm very happy with the way these turned out. I've got a lot of work into them, more than I charged for. This is raw wood veneer from www.certainlywood.com and I used the iron-on method with Titebond II. I had a lot of problems with bubbling, but managed to fix most of them. The veneer cracked a lot too, so I devised a method of wet sanding a mixture of wood filler and oil into the surface of the wood, which filled the cracks and gave them a very nice smooth feel. They almost feel like leather when you rub your hand over them. The only drawback is that rosewood has a very strange way of splintering. It's hard to explain, but even with copious amounts of sanding, wiping a rag over the surface will still catch lint in the pores of the wood. Notice the horns are front mounted. I'll get some beauty shots with better lighting before I pack them up. I hope the new owner will let me listen to them for a little longer though! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Those look really great turned around like that. Kind of like a mini Khorn. How critical is the positioning to optimize the bass? Do you loose any of the tightness in the bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Those look really great turned around like that. Kind of like a mini Khorn. How critical is the positioning to optimize the bass? Do you loose any of the tightness in the bass? Having good corners is probably very important, although it would be interesting to try this against a wall (1/4 space). What is happening is the bass horn is being extended up into the corner of the room, so placement is critical. I started with them way out, so that the space between the sides of the bass bin and the side of the wall was about the same size as 1/2 the front mouth area. But that didn't sound right. I started moving them in and the bass got better and better. I'm sure every room is going to be different. In my room, if I turn them at a 45 degree angle, the imaging is all wrong, the sound crosses in front of me and they are just too close together and too close to me for that. I found that I had to angle them so the horns were pointed almost straight out, which produced the best center imaging. The bass was as deep as my Khorns and even tighter. It was really amazing. I'm still shaking my head over it. I was playing Spyro Gyra "Original Cinema" and I just couldn't stop listening. I just let the whole CD play. There were a few moments that made me sit up and say holy sh*t, what was that! I can't wait to go back tomorrow and crank some more tunes. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Those look great! Do you find that Al's network seems to open up at louder volumes or is the advantage there at low volumes as well? Why is that woofer better than the K33? Anyone try this woofer in Khorns yet? Sorry if this has been dealt with in the technical section, haven't been there in a while. Again my compliments! [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Split La Scala's rule! hhehehehehe Interesting placement too? Never thought of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Good thing they have pretty behinds... [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Beautiful job on the speakers! A great idea with corner loading them! I sure hope other Lascala owners try your idea. Corner loading is a great way to increase bass output. After all, that's how the Klipschorn works. PI speakers use this same method on some of their systems. I'd advise everyone to mess around with corner loading some woofers. As you stated, you just have to move them in and out until you get them at the distance from the corner that yields the best bass output. I have a small subwoofer downstairs for my TV audio system that's facing its corner and it makes it sound much bigger. Way to go. This is such a great forum with lots of great ideas from its members. Wow... [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 The La's bass horns put out a wide frequency range, up to and somewhat above the nominal 400 Hz crossover point, so I wonder if facing the bass horn mouth into the corner wouldn't muffle the 200 Hz - 400 Hz some. That's the G below middle C to the G above it, sort of a center for the mid-range and where overtones of bass instruments show up. That's important, as overtones define the quality and help define the pitch of an instrument. Are plucked string bass notes as clearly defined in that position as when the bass cabinet faces forward? Just a causal question, of course. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Did you purposely match the grain on the front of the MH section with that on the rear of the LF section? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Did you purposely match the grain on the front of the MH section with that on the rear of the LF section? I was going to ask the same thing Greg and is it something the buyer specifically asked for? They absolutely look fantastic and you should be very proud of your final product[Y] Makes me want to sell my Industrials for a split cab model[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudnClear Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I just got my La Scala a couple weeks ago, so I'm just starting out. It'd be a long time before I'd cut the tops off, but in order to try this idea I could take out the horns and set them on top of the cabinet with the cabinet turned around into the corner. Maybe when I'm installing the new ALK crossovers in a month or two... Thanks for the great find and for reporting it. Its wonderful when people report noticable improvements that others can try. Kimball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Those look great! Do you find that Al's network seems to open up at louder volumes or is the advantage there at low volumes as well? Why is that woofer better than the K33? Anyone try this woofer in Khorns yet? Sorry if this has been dealt with in the technical section, haven't been there in a while. Again my compliments! I'm not sure I know what you mean by "open up", but they sound great at low and high volumes. I think the mid horn is attenuated down from the stock crossovers, and that is part of the reason they sound more "hi fi" and smoother. But that's not all, the quality components really shine with these. I know it's not an exact comparison, but I'm much more impressed with the sound of the Universal networks on the La Scalas than I was with the ES networks on the Khorns - a lot of differences, so maybe not a fair comparison. I used the Crites woofer on the "Mkhorns" and they sounded a little better right out of the box, but after a break-in period, they hit with much more authority than the stock K-33's. Don't forget, some of this is because the woofers are new, not just different. This was my first experience with actually being able to detect break-in. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 The La's bass horns put out a wide frequency range, up to and somewhat above the nominal 400 Hz crossover point, so I wonder if facing the bass horn mouth into the corner wouldn't muffle the 200 Hz - 400 Hz some. That's the G below middle C to the G above it, sort of a center for the mid-range and where overtones of bass instruments show up. That's important, as overtones define the quality and help define the pitch of an instrument. Are plucked string bass notes as clearly defined in that position as when the bass cabinet faces forward? Just a causal question, of course. Larry It's a great question. I have to say that I'm noticing more mid-bass, or at least what seams like mid-bass to me. Yes, actually more mid-bass and more low bass at the same time. It's too good to be true. As I said before, I wish everyone (or at least one or two of you!) on this forum could hear these in my room, you just wouldn't believe it. You know how there is the perfect night for listening and you just get in a zone and everything sounds just right and the music is just the way it should be and it almost wouldn't matter what system you were listening too, it's the best thing you ever heard? Well I went to the shop today to make sure that wasn't the case last night! And it wasn't. I spent about an hour mid-day listening to several of my favorite test tunes and the overall sound from these LS's is just amazing. I was still shaking my head in disbelief. That's not to say that there isn't a dip in some of those frequencies in the upper range of the bass horn, Larry, very possible, I'll need more listening to be sure. But I've purposely been listening for any issues like that, and I can't detect any. I detected differences with these particular LS's within 30 seconds of testing them in their normal position. They didn't sound like LS's to me. One thing in particular I do notice is that the mid horns are "back" a little in the mix. This is compared to what I'm used to with my mid-heavy Khorns. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Did you purposely match the grain on the front of the MH section with that on the rear of the LF section? Yes. Sick huh? No, the customer didn't ask for any of this. I started this project along with two other pairs of La Scalas a few years ago with no pre-sale. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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