jeffdbodean Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Hi, new to the amp world and I want to know how the damping factor relates to the quality of sound produced by the amp please. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=damping+factor Nutshell: lower amplifier output impedance means less effect on speakers' frequency repsonse. Higher output impedance means more effect on the frequency response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Generally the higher the damping factor the better in terms of "specs" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffdbodean Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Thanks for all the replys guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good2BHome Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Back to hibernation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 A huge amount of bilge has been written about amplifier DF. Amplifier DF is pretty much meaningless until it is below about 20. At that point the frequency response can change if your speakers have an impedance that looks like a roller-coaster, and reflex boxes may have to be re-sized. The Klipsch Cornwall is a reflex box with an impedance that varies about 10:1, yet SET owners love the results they get with Cornwalls and their tubes (SET amps usually have the worst DF of all designs). The single biggest problem with the spurious DF arguments is that they totally ignore the fact that the DC resistance of the speaker voice-coil is in series with the back EMF generated by the speaker, and that it matters little at that point if the amplifier output impedance is 0.001, 0.01, 0.1, or 1 ohm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 djk: Can you point us in the direction of something to read that discusses the DF but would not be "bilge water"? That would be quite interesting and of assistance to many; thanks//GLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Discussion of this subject from back in the old days (2004). http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/42712/398628.aspx#398628 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Fourthly, many amp famous designers in the past have actually intentionally LOWERED the DF of their amps, so that they would sound more optimum with a wider array of loudspeakers. Early amplifiers included a knob for adjusting DF for the speaker you were using. Tests were run in the 70s by (I think) High Fidelity Magazine where a 1 or 2 ohm resistor was inserted in series with the speaker line. This reduced damping factor and caused the solid state amp they used to sound more like a tube amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 So we shouldn't factor damping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Meters.... Always been like a light for a moth for me.... Can't resist pretty meters, big ones!!! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Meters are neat but create unnecessary paranoia when you watch them bounce high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Meters, analog meters, rule. No paranoia. I love the meters on my old nakamichi 480 cassette deck. Also note the meters on old italian cars, guages should be meters. Oil temp, water temp, gas level, voltage level, fuel pressure, oh yeah. I agree with groomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 And Don and others, sunfire still puts in a 1 ohm resistance output on their amps for that so-called tube effect. Now personally, it sounds ok, and i have heard tube amps on great systems. Tubes sound filtered and colored. If that floats your boat, that's fine. As a musician, nothing I have ever heard through tubes on the reproduction end sounds anywhere near the live end. YMMV. But think really hard about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Only in the slimest respect. Yes, it would lower the DF, but adding a resistor to an SS amp hardly makes it sound like a tube amp in any significant way. For those who are sold on DF, great - your shopping is easy, buy your amp with the highest DF. For anyone who is buying amps based on actual sound quality with their speakers, you'd be well advised to do some critical listening before being sold on high DF. The amp that they used was a hand built single-ended Class A solid state unit. It was judged by critical listening not to have a tube-like until the series resistors were added. Apparently, loose control of the woofer causes some of the tube magic that people hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Ooh. Ooh. Let the flames begin. [8-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 And Don and others, sunfire still puts in a 1 ohm resistance output on their amps for that so-called tube effect. Now personally, it sounds ok, and i have heard tube amps on great systems. Tubes sound filtered and colored. If that floats your boat, that's fine. As a musician, nothing I have ever heard through tubes on the reproduction end sounds anywhere near the live end. YMMV. But think really hard about it. OT - Maybe I'm just a sucker for tubes but every guitar amp I've enjoyed was tubed - Fender, Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, Soldano, Rivera, etc. I would try SS amps but always found the sound I was looking for with tubes and I'm not alone in that opinion. In fact, it was a guitar buddy of mine that got me into tube audio in the 1st place. I was lamenting yet another unhappy SS amp experience and he said that if I like tubed guitar amps so much, why didn't I have tube audio equipment. I couldn't answer that at the time but it got the wheels turning and within a few months, I happened upon a pair of McIntosh MC-30's and the mold was cast. Of course, I kept trying SS audio gear but always found the sound I was happy with in tube equipment. I do get your point though as today's PA systems and amps - even in small bars and cafes are often rated at several hundred watts and up. That insures that the system can compete against noisy crowds and will do so without much attention. A similar tube setup would require a hefty price tag and replacing tubes would be quite expensive. Like you, I've heard some great-sounding home SS systems but I really think for most venues, the decision to go SS over tube is a practical one - not aesthetic and money is almost always the 1st priority. I've never heard a rock n' roll show in any club being driven by a +1000 watt tube-based system but I'd sure like to! In my opinion, the recording industry is almost exclusively driven by the bottom line and aside from a few true artists, most recording engineers wouldn't know a realistic-sounding mix if it bit them. In the end though, ALL audio reproduction gear sounds colored and ALL audio electronics are filtered - it is just a matter of preference and no 2 ears are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Good points JB, I am all with you about guitar amps. As for recording equipment, to my knowledge it is all ss so reproducing on tubes is not necessarily logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I agree with oldtimer concerning SS vs Tube. I break it down like this... Tubes = Great for creating and shaping tones and sounds. Like a brush that an artist uses to make certain things happen on his canvas. For making your own sounds(Guitar, Bass, microphones, compression, etc.) SS= ideally is a transparent piece of glass that imparts the minimum amount of change to the media. Great for reproducing things for what they are, warts, blemishes and all, to hear what is in the recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Good points JB, I am all with you about guitar amps. As for recording equipment, to my knowledge it is all ss so reproducing on tubes is not necessarily logical. Actually, tube equipment is used in some studio mic preamp designs. It is used to "warm up" the sound, usually on vocals, but not exclusively. Harmonic distortion is added as a creative tool to make a more pleasing sound, much like the tubes in a guitar amp are used for. This has nothing to do with damping factor. High or low DF has no effect on non-linearities that cause distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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