mike stehr Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 I would take any one of these speakers. (I like speakers.) Was comparing the KLF-30 and the RF-7 in the product page here. Never heard these speakers before in my life, and would more than likely be blown away by either one. But I have never liked titanium tweeters, they are a little bright to me. Aluminum tweeters aren't too bad, though they are both hard to tame with a crossover. Through a 8'x 8' tractix horn, I hope they have the crossover right. And theres something about a aluminum cone ten inch woofer that scares me. These are just my opinions, I'm not here to chap somebody's buttocks or nuthin' Dickering about what speaker sounds better than the other, has about as much relevance as the ongoing wire debate. It boils down to one's musical preference, and listening to different speakers to suit those needs, amps ...etc... And what you can shell out. If you feel that the speaker is playing the source material as original as the source recording as possible, then wouldn't the speaker be doing it's job? If not, then maybe listening to other speakers is another option. Then you have too factor in room modes, size and all the varibles that come into play as well. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 It's really amazing how we all hear so differently. I mean, exponential horns with plastic diaphrams sound much brighter to me than the Reference titanium drivers. It really fries me out when someone says Reference sounds 'bright'. I'm glad Heritage earbleeders brought me the Reference screechboxes. I have to concede the fact that without them, I would never have been able to have such screeching good sound! This is really kind of funny. Each half of the Klipsch family thinks the other half is whacked. Hey! We're a real family!! Mike - what is so scary about the 2 10's in the RF7?Very light, very stiff - very good. Also, though they are copper colored - they are not copper. "Cerametallic is a specially treated aluminum that has been anodized, or electro-chemically transformed into ceramic on both outer surfaces." Ed, thanks for being cool about my rant ------------------ deanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Pidass Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 OOOOOH......"Ceramatelic". That is a great marketing catch phrase (still no new "technologies though). Holy crap where do they some up with these. I'll still put a 1960's or 70's Khorn (or any other large Heritage speaker) up against anything in the Reference series. But let's face it some people would argue Bose rules. Dynamic realism = Heritage....end of story. Are they revealing?....Yup...Are they accurate and brutally honest?...Yup. As a result do they expose a poor front end or bad recording?....You bet they do. That's why they're the great speakers they are and that's why true audiophiles love them so much. If you love the reference series that's great (I won't disparage them) (sp). However, they are nothing like the Heritage series. It's like comparing apples to oranges(with all due respect) Regards, Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 deang: You are only fooling yourself. When/If Heritage return to the Klipsch lineup, they will be, as they always have been "Top Dog". RF's are awesome, Heritage take it to the next level. I have Synergy's, KG's, RF's and Heritage all right here. My Scala's win every time. ------------------ http://www.geocities.com/mpgwagon/bigolhorn.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 anodize Pronunciation: (an'u-dIz"), v.t., -dized, -dizing. Chem. to coat a metal, esp. magnesium or aluminum, with a protective film by chemical or electrolytic means. Also, esp. Brit.,an'odise". The firearms industry has been making use of this technology for about a decade or so - but it's just now being implemented in other ways. If you would like to know more about this 'old' technology you can read about it here: http://www.robarguns.com/finishes.asp At any rate, it's certainly newer than paper. Your comment about audiophiles loving Heritage is completely ridiculous. Most audiophiles HATE horns. ------------------ deanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 The LaScalas win what every time? The shouting contest? I've heard Khorns many times. During the 70's I heard them often. We always preferred the Dahlquist DQ10's. And then the Magnepans. If I want my system to sound like a P.A. system I will buy Heritage. ------------------ deanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by deang: First rule in buying speakers: Never buy an ugly speaker. I agree that is why I purchased Cornwalls :-) quote: 2nd rule: Speakers should sound musical, not sound like stage gear. I agree that is why I purchased Cornwalls :-) quote: eq_shadimar said: "I have not heard the RF7's but I did have RF3's before I had my Cornwalls. In my room with my amps blah blah the "Cornbreadwalls" blew away the RF3's." I guess so. However, the RF3's are not RF7's. Incidently - The RF7's also blow away the RF3's. I agree that is why I purchased Cornwalls :-) I only paid $500 for my Cornwalls. I would hope that a newer speaker costing 4 times as much would sound better. I used my savings to fly my family down for a visit and buy and SVS subwoofer. And I bet the Cornwalls (even though they are 20 years old) would still put up a good fight against the RF-7's. BTW I love the sound of my Cornwalls driven with my cheap HK510. I am glad that you like the RF-7's. After all everyone is different. Besides we need people like you so that Klipsch can afford to bring back the Heritage series :-) Laters, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Pidass Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Deang: I only heard LaScalas once and it was over 20 years ago. I must admit they were VERY dynamic, however, I found them somewhat lacking on the low end and consequently they seemed a little harsh. In fairness, it was at an audio shop which lacked a proper sized room for them and I can't recall what was driving them. Probably someting that didn't complement them. As far as shouting matches go, yes the heritage speakers will deafen you if that's what you want. However, it's their ability to sound dynamically real at low levels that's most impressive. I realize you just layed out big bucks for your RF7's and the thought of them not "measuring up" to 30 year old speakers is not only hard for you to believe but it's also something that not many in your position would want to think, let alone admit. Don't worry. We heritage fans feel your pain as evidenced in your posts. Those reference speakers are GREAT!!! Really. I hope you enjoy them for generations to come. Regards, Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Relax Dean, Like I posted, I would be probably be blown away by a pair of RF-7's. In my experience, with aluminum and titanium (DOME) tweeters is that they seem a tad bright if not properly crossed over. IMO! I sure folks are quite aware of the process of anodizing aluminum, and I knew the woofer cones are anodized aluminum. (Gives them that purdy copper color,heh,Sorry.) From what I gather, aluminum woofers are peaky in the higher frequencies and hard to cross over as well as mid/tweeters of the same material. Never heard them so I can't say myself. There is a couple of Klipsch dealers in town, maybe one of them has some RF-7's up for Demo(Dought it!) I can shut up and go listen to a pair. Hey! at least these are the same brand speakers! THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moit Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Please become ONE with your Klipsch Specifications before speaking out of line. The Cornwalls are MDF with a Real Wood Finish, just like the RF 7s. I happen to own a set of KG-4s and RF 7s, and the cabinets are both very well built. I am not trying to compare the KG-4s to the Cornwalls, but the cabinet construction is the same. Heritage sound verse RF sound, I have to admit I was searching for the Heritage sound when I purchased my RF 7s. This is what I personally discovered. The Heritage speakers will play a broader range of musical styles with an incredible sound. The RF 7s do not tolerate poor CD mastering. For example Led Zeppelin IV sounds relatively poor on the RF 7s, the master recordings are in bad shape, and it shows. Led Zeppelin III sounds like Robert Plant is in my living room performing live. In my opinion the Heritage line would make these CDs sound about the same. Bottom line, any speakers you purchase will come with some compromise. I choose to hear the CD as close to its master recording as possible, even if this means giving up some sound quality on a few of my favorite CDs, the payback on my other CDs is worth it. One more thing, Klipsch speakers do hold up remarkably well, but everything does deteriorate with age and use. It may happen so gradually that you dont notice it. Speakers are subjected to change in air temperatures, humidity, and ultraviolet sunlight; these will eventually take a toll on older speakers. Not to mention they do have moving parts that simply cannot perform like new if they were built in the late 80s. I would purchase new if you can, and let your ears make your decision. This message has been edited by Moit on 01-26-2002 at 02:16 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Hey Moit, You should get your facts straight before you post. The Heritage speakers were made out of 3/4" plywood before mdf came along in the 80's. Also, they are much more dynamic and revealing than the current RF line. Try playing Journey's greatest hits on a pair of La Scala's and you will know what I mean... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny24c Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Man......... I just ordered RF7's and RC7 to replace my Cornwalls, You guys are starting to put serious doubts in my mind. At least I will get a chance to compare them side by side. I figure that they should sound at least as good. Plus I really wanted a perfect matching center for HT and I like the new look of tall instead of wide and short. One thing I can say is TO ME the cornwalls do not blow my cf-4's away like I thought they would and the Base sounds better and tighter on the cf-4's. I do not have tubes or real high end equiptment, just a Sony 825 right now. These will be the first "NEW" speakers I have ever bought. I only paid $500 for the CF-4's. and the RF-7's are $1600 delivered This huge difference in price. The one thing that does stick out is the fact that the Cornwalls cost me $1000 (in trade not cash) and they are 20 years old, so they definately hold their value better than anything else I have had. The cf-4's retailed for $2500. so I wonder how the reference will be at in 5 to 10 years ? sorry for rambling on......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 It's probably true that with the right front end gear and big enough room - I could more than live with a set of Khorns or LaScalas. When I heard the Khorns they were hooked up to some Crown stuff. I did hear the KLF20's once hooked up to some nice Parasound stuff but wasn't impressed. I would just like to say that the majority of people inhabiting this site are the ultimate in class. I know I have a tendency to get anal from time to time and everyone here just puts up with me and responds with class post after class post. Klipsch is unique. The Klipsch community is unique. I am humbled and so I must repent in dust and ashes. Long live Heritage! Long live Reference! ------------------ deanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Moit: Please become ONE with your Klipsch Specifications before speaking out of line. The Cornwalls are MDF with a Real Wood Finish, just like the RF 7s. I happen to own a set of KG-4s and RF 7s, and the cabinets are both very well built. I am not trying to compare the KG-4s to the Cornwalls, but the cabinet construction is the same. Humm my '79 Cornwalls and Heresys are made out of 9 ply void free birch plywood. Maybe the II series of each speakers were made from MDF? I would be very curious to find that out. In any case I think that modern day MDF is just as stable as plywood. Laters, Jeff ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Isn't this fun!! I would think the only problems with MDF would be moisture and it's tendncy to break much easier than plywood. ------------------ http://www.geocities.com/mpgwagon/bigolhorn.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 I try to keep my speakers out of the rain ------------------ deanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oosting Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 johnny24c, How much you want for your Cornwalls? I'll take them! BTW, there is not enough of a layer of Aluminum Oxide on the woofers on the RF series to do any good. You can't grow that much of a layer of Oxide in the anodizing process. You pass DC through the part in a Hydro-Sulfuric Acid bath to oxidize the outer layer of the aluminium part. When you get a fairly thin layer on the part (in mils, I don't remember the typical layer thickness) the resistance of the Oxide layer stops the current and the oxidation process. Aluminium anodizing is really only intended to provide a non-reactive layer on the part to stop corrosion. A side-effect of anodizeing is that you can dye the part since the oxide layer is porous. I'd really like to see data proving that the oxide layer has a real effect on driver stiffness and damping. I haven't seen any data from any source yet. This leads me to believe that it is just marketing BS. Aluminium cone manufacture is much easier than paper. All you have to do is punch the cones out of a thin sheet of aluminium. That's probably the real reason Klipsch and other companies are using the "new" technology. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Good post - I didn't know that. I wonder where the ceramic bit comes in at. It would be nice if there was more data on the drivers. Maybe the folks at Monitor Audio can shed some light on it. "Due to the metal cones' ultra -rigid nature, there is less cone flex and breakup occurring compared to conventional cone materials. The metal cones reproduce sound with near ideal pistonic motion, resulting in unsurpassed detail and transparency." Or better yet - BobG - where in the hell are ya when we need ya. ------------------ deanG This message has been edited by deang on 01-26-2002 at 02:33 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Oosting, What is your opinion on black anodized heat sinks having better cooling properties than non-anodized heat sinks? Some claim that black ones have better cooling properties. My only guess is the black color of the sink itself, I have no idea why. Maybe it's because anodized aluminum looks better than a non-anodized peice, and of course to resist oxidation. (Could this be the only benefit for black anodized heat sinks?) Curious. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 if black anodized heatsinks had better cooling properties, people would be using these to cool their overclocked PC processors... and all the CPU heatsinks I've seen are of the non-anodized sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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