What's the ultimate system for my home theatre?

[rogert]

Hi everyone, first time post here on the site.

I'm building my dream home on the Adriatic coast in Europe. I've set aside one room for home theatre, music listening room. The room is 4m square (about 13ft square) and 2.5m high (about 8 feet). No windows. I have a projector/equipment room behind with a small window built into the wall between the two.

I'm looking for an awesome sound and vision experience, both for home cinema and for simply listening to music.

Budget is always a consideration but not necessarily a limitation.

The RF85 is highly recommended everywhere I look, but I'm wondering if my room is too small for that?

Any suggestions for speakers, amps, projection equipment and tuning the room would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[Guest srobak]

Start here... http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/thx-ultra2.aspx

[Youthman]

Welcome to the forums and the quest to build and design your home theater. I own the RF-83's and they are absolutely amazing for Home Theater and sound very nice for music as well. I do not have the entire RF-83 system yet because we too are building a home with a dedicated theater room. Which RF speaker were you referring to when you said RF-85. There is not such a speaker. The RF-83 is derived from the following...

R = Reference
F = Floorstanding
8 = 8" woofer
3 = 3 woofers

You could go with a heritage setup (LaScalas, Cornwalls etc) or even the THX Ultra II setup. Lots of options that would be really fantastic for home theater and music.

[rogert]

The THX Ultra was what originally turned me on to Klipsch as I have read again and again that there is nothing like it

2 questions:

Isn't this system for larger rooms?

If the room is equally for movies and music listening, is it still the best choice?

thanks.

[rogert]

yes sorry I meant RF83 not RF85, that was a typo

[damonrpayne]

http://www.klipsch.com/palladium/

[rogert]

Palladium series is Stunning .... and so is the price

OK I did a bit of homework...

I think I'm sold on the THX-Ultra2. I found a place in Italy I can get them. 13k Euro for the set. (about $20k USD - yes quite a mark-up!)

Now is to decide if the entire 7.1 is necessary for my small room. I've wired for 5.1 but can break walls to add the extra couple of speakers on the back wall.

I'm hoping 5.1 with one sub should be enough which saves me 4k - any comments? Will I really notice the difference with the full 7.1 and dual subs?

Again, room size is approx 13 ft. square and 7 foot high

[Youthman]

Now is to decide if the entire 7.1 is necessary for my small room.

I would stick with 5.1. Currently, there are not that many disks that offer a 7.1. In your small room, I do not think you would benefit that much from the added two speakers anyways.

[SWL]

5.1 []

[rogert]

1 or 2 subs?

Also, any suggestions for amps/receiver etc?

thanks for all the comments so far.

[InVeNtOr]

5.1, room size is too small. more subs the better! [] with thx ultra 2 you might want to go seperates. i like the outlaw brand www.outlawaudio.com

sunfire is among the best.

[twistedcrankcammer]

Rogert,

From one Roger to another!!

First, I would like to say that the most important aspect to great Audio, next to the speakers is Accoustics!! If you can afford $20,000 for your speakers, can't you afford to put in a larger audio vissual listening space since you are building?? I would suggest that you read up on Paul Wilbur Klipschs paper on the "Golden Mean Cube" and edgetons.

InVeNtOR,

If he can drop $20,000 on his speakers without batting an eye, then even the Signature Grand Cynima 7 Sunfire isn't even middle of the road for what is available out there if you have enough money.

RogerT,

Seperates is the only way to go. Do you want tube amps or solid state. I will assume probably that you want solid state. Then check out Lexicon MC 12B Home Theater Processor/Preamp. The Lexicon has so many input options and has both 5 channel or 7 channel options, allowing for future upgrades. It also has output pres for 4 seperate subs!!!

For amplifiers, look no further then KRELL. Seperate Mono Blocks for each channel if you can afford it.

Finally; for a pair of subs, J L Audio Gotham is near the top of Mt. Everest in performance.

You have your homework assignment, so do some research!!

Later... Roger

[ensmarcum]

For seperates you need to go with Anthem D2. You will not find a better hand made product anywhere, esp when it comes to customer service. You can actually call the engineer who makes them and talk to him in person or email him, which is what I do. As far as amps, buy the P5 and or the P2 for your system to along with the D2, they are made by anthem also. They have 325 watts per channel and are highly rated, you would have to spend many more thousands to get any better and I am talking on the order of 10's of thousands. All of this equipement is THX Ultra 2 certified and will work perfectly together. Anthem has the ARC-1, which is a room correction mic system that corrects your for your rooms natural acoustics. I have the D2 and I am getting the THX system with 7.1 including the two subs and i cant wait to see how it comes out.

Droopy

[rogert]

Well the more I read the clearer it becomes that I'm out of my depth However, steep learning curves never put me off before - I designed and built the house myself without prior experience.

I think I misled regarding budget - I do have limitations/considerations, so it's not a case of someone looking for the best that money can buy. Sorry, I gave that impression. When I said the ultimate system, I really meant for my HT space, not the ultimate system that can be created

The house is already built, only finishings and painting left, so there's no chance of increasing room size. It's more a case of building a HT into a room in the house rather than building a house around a HT

Since I began looking into high end HT it's become obvious that the room is too small. That's why I'm wondering if it's really worth putting 20k of speakers in there if 5k would do the job 90% as effectively.

From looking around, it seems that any price you can get in the US, I'll be paying 50% to 100% more, if it's American gear. For 'international' products, the price difference is much less but depends on market demand. Even if I buy in the US and ship here, I still gotta add shipping, import duty and sales tax of 20% on the total.

Thanks for all the input so far and please keep it coming, I do appreciate the help.

[jamesV]

Roger,

I would say go for the RF-83 set-up for a 5.1 system. With movies it sounds great and with the size of the room it might be a little over kill but that is better then not being able to handle anything you want the throw at it. As for music the Heritage line up is best but the RF-83's still sound good, I have yet to experienced listening fatigue during the last 2 years of owning this set-up.

Everyone has an opinion but in the end it's your money and you have to love the sound that you end up with. Any chance of a dealer around you that you can take some music to listen before you purchase. Being in the states I was able to go and listen to different music, from my collection, to see how it sounds before I purchased the RF-83's. You still have to remember that room size and placement plays a huge factor between your room and any other room you listen to speakers in.

Good luck,

James

BTW, Welcome to the forum

[dtel]

Welcome

One thing to remember is the THX system can be mounted IN the walls so they will make the room appear and sound bigger !

Any of the RF systems will take up a good bit of floor space in your room if you don't jam them in corners, which is not good.

I would say THX mounted in the walls, [Y] you can mount them or at least cut out out the holes and have someone else finish the trim or whatever is used .

In wall would make the room appear much bigger and give the speakers a little more room to breath.

This is a new house, so you will probably be there for a while, do it right the first time and save yourself money in the long run !

IMO

[InVeNtOr]

see, suggesting good lower priced items wasn't a bad decision.

roger t, you are correct in thinking, even myself as a total noob knows you can't put 100k in electronics in a 5k room and get full use of it. you need to buy the speakers that fit in that room. my living room is 16' 2"x 16' 2" 10' (sloped) and speaking to the klipsch tech support people they have told me the RF-82's are the most speakers that i can fit into that room. the 82's and even 63's will blow me out. sure they fit but i wouldn't be able to fully use them. in fact, if being honest, the 82's are a little too much. i could go down to the 52's and may not even notice the difference. i was even shocked when the dealer told me the same info, i would figure they would try to sell me the most expencive speakers they can. that is also the reason i chose not to go the seperate route. i chose the pioneer elite vsx-92txh because it's a good receiver and i really don't need an amp with 200+ watts. i also really doubt that my uncalibrated ears can even tell the difference between a seperate combination costing $5000+ and the elite ($850 total).

anyways, good luck in your decisions. don't worry i started getting headaches when i had to figure out everything to buy and not to buy. it gets really confusing....well to me anyway.

[twistedcrankcammer]

InVeNtOR,

I have a $900 challenge for you....

Do you always listen to surround sound or do you listen to music on stereo sometimes??

Put back $900 to $1000 and watch ebay for a used Nakamichi PA-7. They were something like $2000 in 1989, and still bring arround $900 today used in good condition. The Pioneer Elite stuff is good, and most of the better receivers have pre outputs. There is a reason for this. Receivers try to give you as many hookup options for the buck as possible, and the amplifier sections are a compromise. If you get a used Nak in good working order, I promise you that you will hear an improvement in sound. You will pick up on things you never noticed before in your own CD collection. What do you have to loose?? If I am wrong, you can easily resell it on ebay, but if I am right, I have opened those uncalibrated ears to new possibillities. I haven't heard tubes yet on my stuff, but I have heard Altec Lansing VOTs on both solid state and tubes. I was never impressed by the sound of the Voice of the Theater on solid state, but I was introduced to a whole new ball game when I heard a fully restored set on tubes!!

Roger

[rogert]

Thanks again guys.

In-Wall mounting isn't really a viable option unless the depth of the hole needed is less than 10-15cm. The house is a passive house (no heating system other than the sun and body warmth) built with thermal clay blocks, and two of the walls are external walls, so any more than 10-15cm into the wall would compromise the structure/thermal properties too much and be quite a job to complete.

That's interesting that Klipsch tech don't recommend the big speakers in small rooms. I've been searching all over to find a minimum room size for the THX system, but have yet to find anything. Does anyone know?

I'll contact Klipsch directly and ask them. [edit: well I would do but I can't find any contact options for Klipsch directly on the site - only dealer info]

[jamesV]

That's interesting that Klipsch tech don't recommend the big speakers in small rooms. I've been searching all over to find a minimum room size for the THX system, but have yet to find anything. Does anyone know?

I'll contact Klipsch directly and ask them. [edit: well I would do but I can't find any contact options for Klipsch directly on the site - only dealer info]

Here is your information in another post. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/104214.aspx.

At the bottom "Colterphoto1" has answered your THX dimension question and has his phone number and ext. if you need to call him, yes he works for Klipsch.

James