Center between KHorns: Heresy or La Scala

[psg]

Hi guys,

I will be finishing my basement eventually and am figuring out how to handle center channel duty. I currently have a 1982 Heresy II mounted upside-down over an old 52-inch RPTV. After the basement is finished, the 52-inch will be replaced by something like a 50-inch LCD. I am currently testing out using a 1973 La Scala as center, thinking that it should be a better match and more dynamic. The comparison isn't perfect because neither the Heresy II or the La Scala have refreshed caps, and so are not optimal in their sound. I have moved the TV off-center to leave room for the La Scala, which is also off-center, and that isn't perfect either as a test.

I don't have a firm opinion yet of the La Scala vs Heresy II comparison (still too early), but here are the possible scenarios for me:

- Keep the current Heresy mounted over an LCD display, but either upgrade the crossover or buy the Heresy III upgrade for it. The Heresy is small enough that it doesn't limit screen placement.

- Use the La Scala (with refreshed caps or perhaps ALK Universal crossover) at floor level but built into the back wall. This places the screen slightly higher than I would normally choose the place it.

- Use the La Scala (with refreshed caps or perhaps ALK Universal crossover) mounted up close to the ceiling and angled down, and possibly upside-down. This would also be built into the wall. This places the screen slightly lower than I would otherwise place it, but the mid-point of the screen would actually be close to eye level.

I'm open to comments about screen placement height (which would lower the desirability of one of the above options), acoustics of center channel height, and using either a Heresy II, Heresy III or La Scala as center between KHorns. It would be cool to use a vertical Cornwall as center, but they simply don't exist in my market and are too big to ship.

Thanks!

[dtel]

" Use the La Scala (with refreshed caps or perhaps ALK Universal crossover) at floor level but built into the back wall. This places the screen slightly higher than I would normally choose the place it."

Your #2 choice would be my choice, the screen a little higher is a better choice for most people to get use to and puts the center channel on the floor which is easier than trying to mount up high, Having the same horns the LaScala would probably be the best sound match. imo

[psg]

" Use the La Scala (with refreshed caps or perhaps ALK Universal crossover) at floor level but built into the back wall. This places the screen slightly higher than I would normally choose the place it."

Your #2 choice would be my choice, the screen a little higher is a better choice for most people to get use to and puts the center channel on the floor which is easier than trying to mount up high, Having the same horns the LaScala would probably be the best sound match. imo

I suppose the setup would look less surprising than mounting the La Scala up near the ceiling too. Thanks for your comment!

[Brac]

I really hate that everyone says Heresy's don't make great centers for khorns. I have a heresy on its side with a small tilt, and I have very little room between the speaker and my screen. Has anybody ever mod'ed the motorboard to make a verticle heresy? Would it make much difference?

In theory the your screen height should be 1/3 below eyelevel 2/3's above. With a 50" you should easily be able to get a LS below it and still watch in comfort.

[Budman]

I really hate that everyone says Heresy's don't make great centers for khorns.

make the move to a lascala and you will see why everyone says it.

[Brac]

I have very little room between the speaker and my screen.

Like very little room, a LS is much taller than a heresy on it's side. I only have 8' ceiling height and with my 100"+ screen I can't do it.

Unless I could use a LS top section seperatly?

[twistedcrankcammer]

Rebuild the LaScala, and rebuild the case it into two sepperate units, just like a pro LaScala version. Align the mid and high frequency section dead center either above or below the new telivsion (whichever more closely approximates the height of your Cornerhorns) If you place it on the bottom, build the bass bin into the wall located off center, with a small air space completely arround the unit. The bass bin should not touch anything, anywhere except at the floor. If you mount the top section above the screen, then mount the bass bin dead center below the screen. As a side note, remember that bass is omni directional, and will therefore not be noticed in an off axis placement like the mid and high frequency sections.

Roger

[psg]

That's an interesting idea. In fact, I wouldn't need to destry the existing cabinet since I plan on recessing the cabinet within the front wall. I could simply hide the top part of the LS with the LCD screen, remove the mid and tweeter and install them surface-mounted in the wall above the LCD, perhaps angled down a tad towards the sweet spot. The screen would be at a very nice height that way.

On the other hand, the HF drivers might end up too high and sound better left as is.

Something to think about anyway!

[psg]

In theory the your screen height should be 1/3 below eyelevel 2/3's above. With a 50" you should easily be able to get a LS below it and still watch in comfort.

Interesting fact! I'll see if using the bass section only or the whole thing under the screen would be best.

Thanks!

[Islander]

The Heresy II is a fine speaker by itself, but the La Scala is a step above it. With Klipschorns, the difference is probably even more evident. If it's practical to go with the LS center, that seems like the best choice, short of a Klipschorn with a false corner, but that would be too tall, even if you had a spare one to try. []

[twistedcrankcammer]

Islander,

I presently use a LaScala driven by an Adcom GFA-565 Mono Block at 300 watts RMS for my center between my Cornerhorns. When my brother in law built his addition to his house, he added a 24 foot by 32 foot audio visual room and has Cornerhorns as well. I talked him into building a false wall in front that he accesses by pulling his LCD out and can get behind his built in subwoofers and racks for easy wiring changes. We even wired it for lighting. The idea is as with when I eventually add on, to go projection screen with a built in false corner, cornerhorn that will be movable to access everthing behind. He is waiting for techknowlogy to get a little better and alot cheaper first, but we both plan on using accoustically perforated powered screens. (Room is 24' by 32' after addition of false wall across the front 24').

Roger

[Daddy Dee]

PSG,

A couple of thoughts here. With HT gear, one does not always have the flexibility to choose between cabs as different in size as Heresy and LaScala. Sometimes you have to do what works with the room. If a Heresy center is what works, it is a very nice speaker.

If you've got the space and especially if you will be doing any three channel critical listening, the LaScala would be preferred. Direct radiator bass is more distorted than horn loaded bass. For movie soundtracks it would probably go unnoticed.

If the space allows for a LaScala, it would do best as center channel, because it is able to load the room better. That can be helpful because the center channel carries so much freight in HT sound.

[psg]

Thanks everyone. I think that screen height would be optimal if placed just above the La Scala bass bin, sitting on the floor. I could hide the top half with the screen, and move the two horns above the TV mounted on an in-wall motorboard, angled down a bit. I could add a black grill to match the Klipschorn top section.

[Islander]

He is waiting for techknowlogy to get a little better and alot cheaper first, but we both plan on using accoustically perforated powered screens.

Acoustically perforated powered screen? That sounds like the ideal way to go, assuming it's practical for your situation. No worries about what size the speakers are, just good sound coming through/from the screen.

[psg]

JubScalas Pat?

What happened there? What thread should I read? I've spent too much time away from the forum!

[Islander]

JubScalas Pat?

What happened there? What thread should I read? I've spent too much time away from the forum!

You have been away for a while, Peter! I've been enjoying my JubScalas for a couple of months now. It started when I was offered a second Yamaha MX-D1 power amp, then I heard about a pair of slightly-used 510 horns with K69 drivers (the small Jubilee tweeter combo, as opposed to the big 402 horns). When I found a used EV Dx38 processor on the Net, I realized I could put it all together.

The relevant thread starts here: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/100243.aspx?PageIndex=1

And there are pictures on pages 15 and 16:
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/100243.aspx?PageIndex=15
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/100243.aspx?PageIndex=16

One Jubilee owner described my JubScalas as 90% of the sound of Jubilees at 30% of the price. I haven't had the opportunity to hear a pair of Jubilees, but I think he's not far off. Actually, when you add in the electronics, the gap closes a bit, but if I buy a pair of Jubilees now, I just have to hook them up, since everything else is already in place.

As for the sound, it's all that was promised and more. Using the Dx38 instead of passive crossovers allows for a smoother frequency response, even in the La Scala bass bin, plus the 40 years newer tweeter design provides new levels of clarity and soundstaging. The Dx38 also allows the tweeters and woofers to be time-aligned, which makes for a tighter and more realistic sound.

The Heresy II center and surrounds provided a reference, in that the La Scalas sounded better than the Heresy IIs, but the JubScalas sound much better again.

I could go on, but you can see I'm pretty pleased with the results, even if it took longer than I expected to get them operational.

[psg]

Very sweet!

Can't wait for my next visit to the island!

[Islander]

Cool! It would be a treat to have you hear the latest configuration of the system. I'm sure you'll like it. [Y]

And maybe I'll play you some ska music. No bagpipes, more like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nSZ58dtzDTY

[garyrc]

LaScala would be the better choice for the center. The timbre matches the Khorns.

Whether above or below, for articulate dialog, even with movies that are poorly transferred, or poorly recorded in the first place, there is something to be said for AIMING the LS's tweeter right at the ears of the person in the center chair, and this would require a tilt, so removing the midrange and tweeter and putting on a very similar, but tilted, board might be a good idea. Perhaps the midrange & tweeter board could be above your screen, pointed down at those ears, and the bass bin below? I don't know if your screen is affected by magnetic fields.

If you decide to position the bass bin off-center for some reason, and you are going to bury it (and the midrange & tweeter, somewhere above) in the wall anyway, you might want to cover that part of the wall with a (supposedly) acoustically transparent fabric or grille cloth. This might reduce the effect of the audience thinking they are hearing the lower part of the spectrum from an obviously visible source. Actually, quite a bit of the range between about 50 Hz and about 500 Hz (the bass bin's range) is detectably directional, especially with impactive bass like timpani beats, where the sound of the impact of beater to head has some subtle information way above the fundamental the drum is tuned to.

[psg]

Yeah, I finally did do a few comparative tests between the Heresy II and the La Scala, and the La Scala`s improved dynamics make a big difference to the overall experience. Plus, I can cramk up the music DVDs (like `New York Minute`on The Eagle`s HFO DVD) and not be limited by the Heresy.

I`ll start by mounting the screen over the LS, and will split out the HF section of the LS if the screen ends up being too high (which probably won`t).