B.Althaus Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I have just re-discovered this forum and this time i signed up! I have spent many hours over the past couple of days reading and enjoying all of the info. I am getting ready to take the Forte II's (which i have owned since 92 or so) out of the HT set up and go with a 2 Channel setup. On to my question(s) I was considering going with some semi-vintage SS seperates (Sony TA-x77es, Denon POA / DAP, Onkyo M 504/P 304 and just saw a Sansui CA / BA 2000 set go on ebay) Also I have no service manuals for any of these pieces of gear so i have no idea how available any repair/maintenance parts are. Anyone have any thoughts, comments? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Hello and welcome to the madness. My advice would be to do yourself a favor and get a Scott intergrated amp or some other tube equipment. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 forte II's are some of my fave Klipsch speakers. Honestly, they'll sound good with anything. I have a 70's HK 730 receiver hooked up to mine. Welcome to the Madness indeed! (everybody keeps using my phrase, perhaps it'll be my legacy here at Klipsch?) Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Short thoughts: SS - clinical and accurate, and all about the same Digital - smooth and accurate, and cheaper than SS (I paid 127.00 on Ebay for my Panasonic SA-XR25). Tubes - warm and accurate, and the most expensive...but providing some mysterious something that nothing else can. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 what Dave said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 What dave said means that tubes add something which isn't really there. there is no "air" or "spaciousness" or however you want to describe it in the studio. Tube amps add something. If you want neutral sound, then I have yet to hear a tube amp that will provide it. It's all individual taste, one man's thin and lifeless is another man's purely neutral. Cold and clinical or warm and fuzzy? The descriptors can go on and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 11, 2008 Moderators Share Posted July 11, 2008 Any way you go the Fortes are still good ! 4000 post for Oldtimer on that one ! .....I normally don't keep track but when you see all those zeros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I didn't notice either dtel, thanks for pointing it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I have just re-discovered this forum and this time i signed up! I have spent many hours over the past couple of days reading and enjoying all of the info. I am getting ready to take the Forte II's (which i have owned since 92 or so) out of the HT set up and go with a 2 Channel setup. On to my question(s) I was considering going with some semi-vintage SS seperates (Sony TA-x77es, Denon POA / DAP, Onkyo M 504/P 304 and just saw a Sansui CA / BA 2000 set go on ebay) Also I have no service manuals for any of these pieces of gear so i have no idea how available any repair/maintenance parts are. Anyone have any thoughts, comments? Thanks Let's get back on track for B.Althaus shall we?? To say that all SS amps are the same is a major crock full of SH*T!! If I can convince you of one thing dude, please stay as far away from that Sony amp as possible. It would be a major help to know how much you are willing to spend on an amp?? If you are primarily looking in the used market, I would suggest an old Nakamichi PA-7 or PA-5 amp. They are the same vintage as your speakers and Nakamichi is the best thing I ever heard on my Quartets when they were new period!! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Althaus Posted July 12, 2008 Author Share Posted July 12, 2008 Thanks for all of the input so far, as well as trying to stay on topic. I also love my Forte' IIs and will more than likely buy another pair when I get around to finishing the basement and the re-setting up the full HT (which wil be soon I hope). Twisted....thanks for the heads-up on the Sony and Nak suggestion. As for budget i am thinking somewhere in the $800.00 ish range. I am also thinking about selling my Mcintosh C26 in order to help offset the cost.....and keep my wife from ......well i dont really have to explain that part do i? As for the availibility of repair / maintenance parts.. Caps, Transistors etc... any thoughts on the mid 80's - early 90's gear? I know about Mouser, MCM, Digikey etc....thought someone might have some other sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 If you're thinking solid state, don't overlook NAD. They don't get much airtime around these parts, but they are generally a very good product. Not a lot of bells and whistles, but quality where it counts. They are like HK in their power-ratings - understated but you get more than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 B.Althus, With a budget of arround $800, the Nakamichi PA-7 at 200 watts per channel can be bought for arround $900 or a little over on ebay when they come up. The Nakamichi PA-7II was it's replacement and had 225 watts per channel RMS. These amps were arround $2,300 back arround 1989 when new and the fact that they still bring this kind of money now speaks volumes of build quallity and sound quality. The Nakamichi PA-5 and PA-5II bring arround the $500 to $600 range and are 100 watts per channel and 150 watts per channel respectively. If you can swing it, I would look for a nice PA-7, the clean power and extra headroom are excellent, plus this amp has a warm sound. Google the Nakamichi PA-7 and see if you can find some shots of the amp under the hood and you will be impressed. DougDrake, As for the NAD stuff, my dealer carried the full Klipsch line, Nakamichi equipement, and NAD equipement. The NAD stuff was clean for the money, but most amps were in the 60 watts per channel range. The NAD equipement was for those that could not afford the Nakamichi. $2,300 was alot more coin in 1989 then now, and the NAD was not in the same league with NAK, power wise, sound wise, or build construction. I believe the 60 watt per channel NAD was like $600 in 1989. I am not saying NAD was bad by any means, but a more modern comparison would be Adcom vs: Krell. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Althaus Posted July 12, 2008 Author Share Posted July 12, 2008 i have not seen any PA-7's for sale. I have seen a PA-5. I am also looking at a couple of Denon amps and preamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 i have not seen any PA-7's for sale. I have seen a PA-5. I am also looking at a couple of Denon amps and preamps. B.Althaus, Patients padewon, I put my search on most recently listed and check Klipsch, Electro Voice, Adcom, and Nakamichi on a by-weekly basis. I have done this continuously for about the last 3 or 4 years. This way, I only see the new things listed that I haven't already sean. I keep current on condition and value. You will see more of the PA-5s than the PA-7s, and more of the PA-7s then the PA-7IIs. The PA-7s often come in groups. Someone will list one, and one or two more will be listed the same week. I usually see at least 4 or 5 PA-7s for every PA-7II. I usually see a PA-7 come up about every 3 weeks to a month, so be patient, it is worth the wait. Have you taken the time to google a Nakamichi PA-7 and see the insides of one yet?? Pretty impressive huh?? Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 i have not seen any PA-7's for sale. I have seen a PA-5. I am also looking at a couple of Denon amps and preamps. My brother and his wife are attouneys and he has the best Denon has to offer. Since you are going with 2 channel, I would go with the Nakamichi 7 pre amp as well, or you could use a newer Denon pre amp if so desired, but that Denon does not compete with the Nakamichi amp, it really is that good. I also own Adcom GFA-565 Mono blocks that are 300 watts per channel and the Nak will bring things out in clarrity that has to be experienced, just like the Forte can bring out little sounds that you never heard before in your source material before. The Nakamichi is 19 years old and still brings almost half of it's new price. How much will that Denon bring?? Nuff said??? Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The Nakamichi is 19 years old and still brings almost half of it's new price. How much will that Denon bring?? Nuff said??? Roger Probably not. If you have a budget, the last thing you want to do is have someone almost twist your arm to spend more. Regarding the NAD, as has been pointed out, their power ratings are extremely conservative, and you probably won't be disappointed in certain of their models. Try to find someone close by who has some of this gear and see if you can try it on your own system. It won't matter how good it is rated or how much someone else likes it if you get it and then are second guessing the purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 B.Althaus, I just checked out the PA-5 that you looked at. To give you further insight of the Nakamichi of that era, the Nakamichi Draggon equipement was sold at this same time. The Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck is considdered by many to be the best cassette deck ever made. These come up often and bring $900 for a cassette deck now. Right now there is a Nakamichi Dragon CD for sale on ebay, and as you can see it is listed for $3500.00. When a Nakamichi Dragon turn table comes up, they bring $10,000 for a 20 year old turntable. Further, in reading about the PA-5 and PA-7, you will find they are a STASIS design from Nelson Pass. If you are not familiar with Nelson Pass, I would ask you to do a search for Pass Labs and check out his amps and speakers. You will see the "Rushmoore" speakers by Nelson Pass. These are new and available for delivery for fifty thousand U.S. dollars a pair. The Nakamichi PA-7 is a chance to get into a used amp that is on another level. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Althaus Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 Interesting indeed. run a little on the warm side huh? look at those heat sinks. I have been reading some very favorable things regarding these amps. Patience you say. hmmm ok!!! Afterall i am still able to listen my Forte' II's now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The Nakamichi is 19 years old and still brings almost half of it's new price. How much will that Denon bring?? Nuff said??? Roger Probably not. If you have a budget, the last thing you want to do is have someone almost twist your arm to spend more. Regarding the NAD, as has been pointed out, their power ratings are extremely conservative, and you probably won't be disappointed in certain of their models. Try to find someone close by who has some of this gear and see if you can try it on your own system. It won't matter how good it is rated or how much someone else likes it if you get it and then are second guessing the purchase. It is his money, and he is the one who will have to descide ultimately, but I listened alot to the NAD, Nakamichi, and Klipsch at the time of my purchase. You obviously Like NAD, but do you have direct experience with the Nakamichi?? The NAD is not even in the same league. The NAD was a good amp then for $600, but there was a reason the PA-7 was almost 4 times the price!! Consevatively rated at 60 watts per channel or not, the NAD does not approach 200 watts per channel either, or spec out as clean at 60 as the Nak does at 200. Have you ever had a PA-7 wired to your stuff??? You will not find a PA-7 for under $900, and I haven't seen one yet that didn't sell for $900, so he could easily unload it if he were to find he disagrees. I also suggest you look at feedback on AudioReview.com on the Nak, or web search and look at articles. I truely don't believe you have ever listened to a Nak if you would suggest that someone would be happy with an NAD, and even if he goes with a PA-5 or PA-5II, it is still alot more amp then the NAD ever was. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Interesting indeed. run a little on the warm side huh? look at those heat sinks. I have been reading some very favorable things regarding these amps. Patience you say. hmmm ok!!! Afterall i am still able to listen my Forte' II's now. Actually B.Althus, If you were to buy a PA-5 or PA-5II, I would say to wait for one to come up with a "cool top" as this was an option with the smaller amp. The PA-7 is twice as thick with bigger everything and heavier built than My GFA-565 mono blocks. They also have some preety nice billet aluminum rack handles. I will take a lok and see if I can find a site to post with a view with the top cover off of a PA-7 Regaurds...Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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