tlarwa Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I'm new to the forum, and am looking for some sage advice. I have always appreciated quality sound, and have had some decent systems in the past, but have never ventured into higher-end 2-channel audio. I'm interested in getting into the world of tubes, albeit with a budget in mind! I primarily listen to jazz, jazz fusion, progressive rock, etc.. I'm looking for suggestions in pairing up "vintage" Klipsch speakers with a tube amp/preamp combo or integrated tube amp (probably most cost effective). I have ALWAYS loved the heritage stuff (although when I first discovered it in the '80's it wasn't yet "heritage"). For the money, what's should I be looking for in terms of Klipsch speakers for this type of music? Half the fun is the hunt, and I'm in no rush, so looking for a quality set of vintage speakers is not an issue. As for the tube equipment, I am really out of my element here, as I have ZERO experience in this area. Any help, direction, opinions, etc. would be appreciated! By the way, my source components will likely be vinyl and CD. Thanks! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hi Tom, Welcome to the forum and the madness!!! As for the speakers how big is your room? How loud do you listen? As for the tube stuff that's a different game. Cost effective would be an intergrated amp like one of the Scott's, alot of members here have them great for a starter. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 You are in luck, low priced modern tube units sound pretty good. Can you give us an idea of budget? Lots of guys will recommend vintage tube equipment but I'd get something newer for your first step into tubes. Speaker choices in the Klipsch family is up to your budget but they all go well with tubes. Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hey Tiarwa.....Welcome and be warned ....you're are going down a very addictive road [] I'm a big jazz nut myself and the Heritage line really does justice to genre.......For a small room Heresy II's are a great starting point...but Cornwall's Are amazing especially, if you consider that you have many placement options, and they are a fraction of what Klipshorns cost.....probably best bang for the buck. Forte II'S are amazing also...so try to figure a budget, let us know your room size, and try to give a listen to them....see if somebody near you has a set Great advice so far on the amps...Scotts do a great job!! Don't forget Vintage SS also...Mcintosh, Sansui,yamaha.luxman all have some very sweet sounding SS gear and once its going it's good for another 30 years......There are lots of options both tube and SS.. Good luck and let us know how your leaning....you'll get a lot of different opinions here, most of them good....but it will help you narrow down your options.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlarwa Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 Thanks for the replies so far. As for room size, that's up in the air, as I'm not sure where to put my listening area right now. My "entertainment" area (read, living/family room) is already inundated with my HT set-up, and I'm not sure I can fit another set of speakers and an equipment rack in the same space. It will likely go in the master bedroom or basement (500 - 700 sf, most likely). I like to listen at decent volumes ... not make my ears bleed loud, but I won't hesitate to crank it up a bit when I'm really into it. I am not looking for "background" music, in any case. Budget is somewhat limitied, as I just dumped a bunch on the HT system this past year. If I could get into the speakers for $500-$750 and the amplification section in a similar range that would probably work. I already have the CD source, and am keeping my eyes open for a decent turntable (although I'm in no rush). If you had to "rate" speakers in that price range (used, on the market), what would you look for?? I am not familiar with Scott amps. Are there any model numbers that stand out? As for SS equipment, that is an option, but part of this exercise is to satisfy my curiousity with tubes. Although a nice bargain on some Mac equipment would interest me as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornman Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Welcome to the forum. My recomendation is Cornwalls there in your price & so very versitle. If you could swing the extra $ that Mc240 that Joe has for sell in the garage sale wold be killer. Some of the best advise I received when I stated on this forum with similar question was to read-read & read some more for there is a wealth of information here. Then listen to other peoples set ups & find out what you like best. good luck Cornman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The Scott 222, 299's etc, etc. these will be more than enough. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I must agree that the best bang for your buck is Cornwalls, you just can't go wrong with them, KILLER sound! As for amps, there are quite a few worth having in the same price range as the speakers, most any of the Fisher or Scott units are nice and affordable but a vintage unit will sooner or later need to be overhauled and that is a bit more coin to invest, not bad for the return but more coin in any case. For an idea of the gear that people feel it is worth spending money on to get to better than new specs, go to http://nosvalves.com/queue.htm and see the units that have been repaired and that are waiting to be repaired, mostly Scott and Fisher with the occasional Eico, Dynaco etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Just look at what comes up for sale locally. If its Klipschorns, Belles, LaScalas, Cornwalls, Chorus, Fortes or Heresy's you'll be doing well. I listed those in my preference. The horn loaded bass are my faves but all are great speakers. Happy hunting. While I like vintage they can have issues. They would need to go to NOSValves.com first. He has a great reputation. If you have the money his VRD amps are amazing. http://nosvalves.com/vrd.htm There are also tons of great new production tube amps on the market. In my opinion the new ones are less hassel. If you want to try used buy from a seller with great feedback and lots of it. Whatever tube amp you buy pick up some extra tubes. Shop for some tube integrateds on audiogon http://buy0.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?intatube&1&ctg&st1 The Onix SP3 has great bang for the buck and can be had under $500. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1228478619&/Onix-sp3-mkii The vintage Eico HF81 is legendary. Highly regarded but I haven't hear them yet. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1228525670&/Eico-HF-81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vman71 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I have an extra Eico HF-81 that I'd be willing to sell. It's been recapped and has the Eico Mullard tubes throughout except for the pai of 12au7's which are Amperex orange globes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I primarily listen to jazz, jazz fusion, progressive rock, etc.. It don't get better than that! Jazz, being made up of a good number of acoustic instruments, sounds great played on tube equipment. I really like the sound of SET for jazz and classical. There are times when I want to crank the volume a bit more than SET can handle in which case I use the Scott 222D. It can handle those intense moments (like the climax of Close to the Edge, or the bass pedal moments on early Genesis...or even those killer bursts in the Firebird) with a bit more ease. It's amazing how loud 4 watts can get with Klipsches :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryO Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Cornwalls are a good choice IF you can find a pair for the money you want to spend. They're bringing the bucks they should be right now. They do go down in price occasionally but are worth $500-$1,000 depending on condition and upgrades. Even more on super nice ones. Location, Location, Location. On your tube amps. STAY AWAY FROM "CHI-FI" STUFF. It's cheap chinese stuff but leaves a lot to be desired. It's ok for entry level as a general rule but usually crapola. The vintage tube gear keeps it's value for a reason. It's well built and sounds fantastic with good hot glass glowing. Larger tube amps will keep your listening area "warm and cozy" so if you've got kids or curious pets you may want to keep them out of reach. You should be able to find a good vintage tube integrated in the $500 and up range depending how much you want to spend and how much power you want. Cornwalls are easily driven with SET at around 4 watts up but a 12 wpc will sound good. More power isn't necessary but it's always nice to have a bunch in reserve when the mood strikes. Tubes can be frustrating at first but it's like the rest of audio. It's a learning thing and once mastered is a heckova satisfying hobby with very pleasing results. That spare Eico might be something you should check into more thoroughly. They made a very good sounding amp. If I needed another amp I'd ask a few questions about it. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlarwa Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 I would definitely like the extra reserve power for when it's needed ... I a HUGE old Genesis fan, and the mood to crank it strikes me quite often when I listen to it! I have been searching around for used Scott equipment (222 and 299) as suggested. There's a couple sets of Heresy's for sale locally, one with x-overs updated by Bob Crites (HBR) for $425. I may give them a listen ... haven't seen any Cornwalls of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Cornwalls are a good choice IF you can find a pair for the money you want to spend. They're bringing the bucks they should be right now. They do go down in price occasionally but are worth $500-$1,000 depending on condition and upgrades. Even more on super nice ones. Location, Location, Location. On your tube amps. STAY AWAY FROM "CHI-FI" STUFF. It's cheap chinese stuff but leaves a lot to be desired. It's ok for entry level as a general rule but usually crapola. The vintage tube gear keeps it's value for a reason. It's well built and sounds fantastic with good hot glass glowing. Larger tube amps will keep your listening area "warm and cozy" so if you've got kids or curious pets you may want to keep them out of reach. You should be able to find a good vintage tube integrated in the $500 and up range depending how much you want to spend and how much power you want. Cornwalls are easily driven with SET at around 4 watts up but a 12 wpc will sound good. More power isn't necessary but it's always nice to have a bunch in reserve when the mood strikes. Tubes can be frustrating at first but it's like the rest of audio. It's a learning thing and once mastered is a heckova satisfying hobby with very pleasing results. That spare Eico might be something you should check into more thoroughly. They made a very good sounding amp. If I needed another amp I'd ask a few questions about it. Harry I partially agree. Personally I didn't find 8wpc SET to sound as good on cornwalls but I did think it was amazing on La Scala Belle and Khorn. Vintage gear is like vintage cars be prepared to have it fully restored before you rely on it too heavily. If you get a good piece of vintage gear just get someone who knows it to do a complete restoration like nosvalves.com. The "CHI STUFF" isn't all bad. I have heard a full Cayin system that sounded great. This was my first experience. After this experience I bought a PP 6L6 family amp that was totally killer. The Onix Sp3 was commissioned by an Australian company designed in Germany and built in China. It changed my thinking on chinese gear and quality. The chinese can make it as well as western companies are prepared to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Tiwara......check out the eico in garage sale!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I'll throw in my 2 cents. I bought my first tube amp in '03 and still use it with the Cornwalls I bought new in 1980. It's a Scott 299b and was the best tube amp purchase for the money I've made and I've made quite a few in the last 5 years. I also have a 299 (same but slightly lower wattage) in a different system, also with Cornwalls. If you can hold out for a pair of Corns, you'll thank yourself down the road. I'm a jazz nut and although I prefer my Khorns to just about anything, Cornwalls sound amazing with acoustic jazz (in addition to just about everything else). Also, when thinking of a tube amp, remember to look for an integrated amp so you won't need to buy a pre. That's what makes the Scott 299/222 series so nice and such great values. The Fishers and Eicos also are great sounding integrateds but make sure any vintage unit you buy has been updated, preferably by Craig (NOSValves). Most folks on this forum have sent their units to Craig before ever listening to them. It's well worth the time and money. He's the best there is. I don't recommend the newer stuff. I just don't think something in the same price range can compete with the vintage units and I've never had a problem with any of my vintage stuff. They've been as easy to use as SS and make the hobby more fun IMO. If you're a remote control type who just doesn't want to be bothered, ignore everything I've said Good luck. P.S. Find someone in your area who will give you a demo! We're all pretty open here and most of us are willing to let other forum members into our homes for auditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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