Hornification

[Albatross]

I come from the land of high-end without horns.

Why horns?

What are all the things a horn will do for a speaker?

[jtnfoley]

Provide an endless source of entendre'?

[]

I hve not considered the physics much, tho I'm sure they have been much debated here. I imagine that they make a fairly substantial increase in efficiency at mid- and high-frequencies...

I've always liked the Klipsch sound since auditioning a set of Cornwalls.

[Don Richard]

Efficiency - louder sound out for the power put in.

Directional control - focuses the sound where you want it.

Less distortion for a given sound pressure level.

Better imaging in a difficult acoustic environment.

A generally easier load on the amplifier.

[Mallette]

Too bad PWK isn't here to answer you himself. He settled this for me in person many years ago. Many here will say there is no land of high-end without horns (perhaps HIGH PRICE, but not high-end).

Best way to find out is to listen to a set of Klipschorn's (or Jubs...no sense in setting you guys off!). Some from your land find them harsh. We find them mercilessly accurate and revealing of poor source material. On great source material, nothing sounds sweeter or more musical.

The efficiency is part of the muscality in mine, and more importantly, in PWK's opinion. It is difficult to describe why (at least for me), but one thing that always comes to mind is the great classical pipe organ. The most musical and delicate of these are those that use the least pressure to achieve their sound. You can almost make a Strad violin sound by blowing on the strings (if they let you that close). The finest pianos can sound with an incredibly light touch of the keys.

Few low efficiency speakers can be used at low SPL levels with any sense of presense, but them big 'ol horns still sound real even when played very quietly.

Just a few personal musings.

Many here can give you much more technical detail, and I recommend PWK's paper on the subject as well.

Welcome to the madness.

Dave

[TheEvan]

Dave, interesting post. What bowled me over with their sound when I first heard them was how they handle solo classical guitar. A delicate instrument with fine dynamic shadings. For me, it was the first time a classical guitar ever sounded like the Real Thing. This was a simple setup with old unmatched Khorns (one from '55, the other from '57 I believe) Mac tube gear and an old AR TT. Sonofagun did that sound get into my head!

[Mallette]

Once you've heard truly great source material over K'horns, you may find their equal but you won't find anything better, IMHO.

Violins, pianos, organs, guitar, gamelan, harpsichord, recorders, clarinet, clavichord, oboe, all things acoustic...these things LIVE to be heard on K'horns.

Rock and lovers of electrically-assisted instruments may have a problem with them...not because of the music (which I love) but because so much of the audio is not well crafted to start with and winds up sounding harsh or distorted. Less accurate speakers may make this tolerable (sometimes at MUCH higher cost). If you INSIST on listening to such things you may convince yourself the horn is too harsh. Sorry, GIGO is the rule with horns.

That is my experience, anyway.

Dave

[colterphoto1]

controlled dispersion gives higher direct/reflected sound ratio for better imaging

horns increase efficiency, which is inversely proportional to distortion

diaphragm working at lower end of its operating temp displays less power compression (when driver heats up, it's less dynamic)

[fenderbender]

Plus if your a Jazz fan...nothing reproduces the "live' sound of trumpet, sax,vibes, acoustic bass...they way a pair of Khorns can....I've played bass sine high school...and it still blows me away that I think I'm hearing a live bass...on most good recordings....

[Albatross]

Thanks for all the replies. Good insights and good fun. I've spent a lot of dough and a lot of time with Audio over the years trying to find the right sound. I spent twenty years selling it and have had some interesting systems, but mostly I would critique the system when I listened rather than merge with the music. I have heard some Klipsch/tube combos that I thouroughly enjoyed...Forte's with a Dynaco ST70 to name just one. So I am looking into possibly building a Cornscala at this point, but want to do some mods that I've learned from other high-end speakers, such as reducing the size of the box horizontally to the woofer (but keep the same internal volume), possibly try to time-align the driver complement and have the horns be in open air (or minimal surround). I guess the question is...Does this stuff matter with horn speakers. I've got just enough information to get me in trouble, since I like to experiment...after reading about Edgar Salad Bowl Horns, my wife has been hiding our wooden salad bowl.

One other question...what should a speaker builder know about a horn's particular frequency? I thought the driver gave the frequency?

[Mallette]

My suggestion would be to start stock. PWK was pretty smart and these things sound pretty awesome right out of the box. Then, mod from there so you know where you are going and what has changed.

Just like science, you need a baseline. PWK provided that. You may be happier with changes, or you may not...but at least you will know where you started and where you are.

Dave

[Islander]

possibly try to time-align the driver complement and have the horns be in open air (or minimal surround).

The Jubilee and JubScala use an electronic processor/crossover for EQ and time-alignment and are basically an LF horn sitting on the floor with an HF horn sitting on top of it, in open air. A simple concept that works really well.

If you look at my avatar, you can see the K510 tweeter horn sitting on the La Scala cabinet which forms the bass horn.

[Coytee]

(or Jubs...no sense in setting you guys off!).

dang it... now I gotta put my boxing gloves back.... [A]

[Coytee]

I come from the land of high-end without ho

This is going to sound really dumb....but....how close/far are you from Spokane Washington? (and also Seattle?)

I ask about both because frankly.....I forget which city Bob lives in.

I'll double check tomorrow when I'm at the office as to which city is correct.

[Albatross]

I'm about 4 hrs from Seattle...Jubscala's sound fun...anybody have a picture of them?

[Albatross]

I think David's idea of having a base to judge mods on is a great idea even though I don't know if I can hold back my experimenting.

[Islander]

I'm about 4 hrs from Seattle...Jubscala's sound fun...anybody have a picture of them?

JubScalas can have either the K510 tweeter horn or the K402 tweeter horn, each with the K-69A driver. The 402 horn has a larger sweet spot and is reputed to have better sound, but it's actually bigger than a La Scala cabinet and has to sit sideways on top of it.

Here's a picture of a 510 JubScala. It's the right one, so I offset the tweeter to the right side of the LS cabinet. The left one is of course offset to the left side of its LS cabinet. The sound is a great leap above a regular La Scala, but that's not just because of the speaker upgrade, the bi-amping and digital time-alignment help, too.

[Islander]

Here's a JubScala with the 402 horn. It looks extra top-heavy since it's a La Scala bass bin only, not a full LS cabinet, which would be a foot taller. It's the one on the left, while that's a Jubilee on the right, also with the 402 horn, which looks about right on its much larger bass bin.

[Coytee]

digital time-alignmen

awwwwwwwwww.....you said a dirty word.....[]

[Colin]

Much greater efficiency – means a lot less amplifier required, makes horns suitable for tube amplifiers Much less distortion than other speaker types makes sound realistic

Incredible dynamics makes the attack of instruments, like drums, violins, pianos, organs, guitar, gamelan, harpsichord, recorders, clarinet, clavichord, oboe and all things acoustic, sound lifelike

[Albatross]

Thanks for all the great posts...how many of you are gamelan fans? I have to say it is an interesting instrument, however, I do perfer the sitar or even the santoor . Anyway, I am seeing a pair of La scalas from the early 80's for $600.00 in my neighborhood...they are a little "used looking" but they are said to be operational. I always thought I'd get Cornwalls because of the bass and then add the La Scala horns. Can any La Scalanator out there give me a reason and a push towards these. Any additional benefits of La Scalas over Cornwalls other than sensitivity and midrange sweetness (obviously that can be enough)? What does a LaScala person do about bass? I've never heard them and don't have room to put them in the corners to add bass response. Is there a mod on the LS for bass?

To make the Jubscala What do the two horns choices run $? The driver for these horns is a Klipsch, but is it an Eminence or Atlas product bought by Klipsch or is it proprietary?

I don't see going wild with digital devices for time alignment, unless it makes one see God. What are the more natural ways of time aligning with the Jubscala?

Thanks All !!!