Deang Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 The grip safety on the XD would have saved burress' leg, his career, and kept him out of jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Maybe, but what do you expect a gun to do when you pull the trigger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Anybody have an opinion about these folks? http://www.armscor.net/Pistols.htm Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 What do you guys think about the Kimber Ultra Covert II .45ACP with 3" barrel for concealed carry. I have been eyeing it for awhile at about $1,200. rigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 my only problem with the ultra small 1911 types is this is usually where the problems happen...the design was not meant to be this small...now I am not saying it can't be that small...just that when I read or hear forsthand of serious problems with 1911 type pistols...it is usually the ones that are smaller than the Commander size or even the Officers size (using generic Colt like sizes)...I recently picked up a SiG Sauer P220 Compact (ultra small P220 double/single .45ACP) that is decent to shoot but I find mostly for concealed carry to prefer my GLOCK 23 in .40 S&W (I am not a big fan of .40 S&W but couldn't pass up the deal...)...a lot of rounds in a smaller package (I do miss my GLOCK 27) that is lighter and easy to conceal...I can't do the inside the pants holsters and the 1911s (mine are both Government sized) must be worn outside the pants...tend to show or print...I have been seeing more of the ultra small 1911s so perhaps my concern is misplaced... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Maybe, but what do you expect a gun to do when you pull the trigger? Yup...never seem to go off by themselves just laying around...but pull the trigger and then be surprised when it goes boom...please... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 silversport, Here is a review on the Kimber Covert I've been looking at. rigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 nice looking pistol...seems like any concerns I had have been worked out...crosses all the "t's" and dots all the "i's"... http://forum.m1911.org/ http://forums.1911forum.com/ Couple of nice places to hang out... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 Maybe, but what do you expect a gun to do when you pull the trigger? True, but he didn't pull the trigger on purpose. He had a Glock stuck in his pants, and it jiggled loose -- it went off as he tried to stop it from going down his pants. Actually, the whole incident could have been averted if he'd had the gun in a holster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 Anybody have an opinion about these folks? http://www.armscor.net/Pistols.htm Tom Tom, I've never heard of that company, but that doesn't mean their guns aren't any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 nice looking pistol...seems like any concerns I had have been worked out...crosses all the "t's" and dots all the "i's"... http://forum.m1911.org/ http://forums.1911forum.com/ Couple of nice places to hang out... Bill http://forums.1911forum.com is the one I prefer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 silversport, Here is a review on the Kimber Covert I've been looking at. rigma I'm one of those that doesn't care much for any of the miniaturized versions of the 1911. I used to own a nice Detonics, and in spite of all hype about how accurate it was -- getting controlled quick follow up shots was joke. It's amazing how much control you lose when you can't get those last two fingers squarely around the butt of the gun. When it comes to a 1911 type, one that you can control and shoot well is better than one you can hide well. For conceal carry in a 1911 type, I really like this Dan Wesson Bobtail. http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=66 If concealability is the primary objective, I'm surprised so many these days are so quick to write off revolvers. It's not like anyone is going to find themselves in a combat situation -- if anything happens at all it's going to be an enounter at 15 feet or less. I don't carry, but if I ever felt the need to drag one around everywhere I went -- it would be a S&W .38 Centennial loaded with +P. Once you chop a 1911 down to get it to a "concealable" size, you lose most of the advantages it has over a small revolver -- so you might as well carry a revolver. A revolver doesn't fail to feed, fail to extract, or fail to eject -- it won't "jam". It shoots even if your grip is poor, and with the exception of the very rare mechanical failure or a bad round of ammo -- will fire when you pull the trigger. Of course with a bad round, you just pull the trigger again -- with a semi-auto you have to pull the slide back and eject the bad round before you're good to go again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmboydoug Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Another XD shooter here. Me too, in .45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flannj Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 If concealability is the primary objective, I'm surprised so many these days are so quick to write off revolvers. It's not like anyone is going to find themselves in a combat situation -- if anything happens at all it's going to be an enounter at 15 feet or less. I don't carry, but if I ever felt the need to drag one around everywhere I went -- it would be a S&W .38 Centennial loaded with +P. Once you chop a 1911 down to get it to a "concealable" size, you lose most of the advantages it has over a small revolver -- so you might as well carry a revolver. A revolver doesn't fail to feed, fail to extract, or fail to eject -- it won't "jam". It shoots even if your grip is poor, and with the exception of the very rare mechanical failure or a bad round of ammo -- will fire when you pull the trigger. Of course with a bad round, you just pull the trigger again -- with a semi-auto you have to pull the slide back and eject the bad round before you're good to go again. I was wondering the same thing. A small frame Smith or the Ruger SP101 series offer the reliability and concealment. Both can be chambered in .357 which certainly offers the punch. But I have a bias towards revolvers in the first place. EDIT: Dean, I wonder if you may have opened up another subject for pages of arguement along the lines of other Klipsch forum mainstays like CD / Vinyl or SS / Tube or many of the other equipment issues (where I usually have no idea what you guys are talking about). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryO Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Test after test have shown a revolver is prone to total lock up not being able to fire. Primary culprits are foreign objects in and around the cylinder. The cylinder will lock up not being able to be fired at all. Semi autos are subject to failure also but can usually be easily cleared by shoving the slide forward or actually pulling the slide back clearing objects that keep the firearm from firing. THis is a standard "sandbox" test which has the revolver design being basically ignored in defense situations. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade but it's one of the main factors in my using the semi auto. I have a few revolvers (S&W 10, 29, Ruger Blackhawk 30 cal carbine, 357, Super Redhawk 44 mag and numerous revolvers from family hand me downs to diverse acquisitions over the years. I'm familiar with most firearms from around the world. Actually I was a weapons specialist for quite a few years in the USMC. They all will do the job. Any caliber, brand, model. Choose yer poison fellas. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 "Dean, I wonder if you may have opened up another subject for pages of arguement along the lines of other Klipsch forum mainstays like CD / Vinyl or SS / Tube or many of the other equipment issues (where I usually have no idea what you guys are talking about)" lol, you can see from Harry's last post that the thread could easily go in that direction. You win Harry. I've never been in combat or received any training as an armourer. I'm just going on practical experience specific to me -- which is restricted to time on range with paper targets. My guns are always clean and I always use new brass -- and after thousands of rounds over the course of 30 years, I've never experienced a failure from either type weapon. But yeah, I can see how sand or dirt in a cylinder could cause a real problem for a revolver that wouldn't impact the functioning of good semi-auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flannj Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Test after test have shown a revolver is prone to total lock up not being able to fire. Primary culprits are foreign objects in and around the cylinder. The cylinder will lock up not being able to be fired at all. Semi autos are subject to failure also but can usually be easily cleared by shoving the slide forward or actually pulling the slide back clearing objects that keep the firearm from firing. THis is a standard "sandbox" test which has the revolver design being basically ignored in defense situations. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade but it's one of the main factors in my using the semi auto. I have a few revolvers (S&W 10, 29, Ruger Blackhawk 30 cal carbine, 357, Super Redhawk 44 mag and numerous revolvers from family hand me downs to diverse acquisitions over the years. I'm familiar with most firearms from around the world. Actually I was a weapons specialist for quite a few years in the USMC. They all will do the job. Any caliber, brand, model. Choose yer poison fellas. Harry Harry, I certainly would agree with you that they will all do the job. I'm sure I don't have to tell someone with your experience that the real key is proper training and practice, practice, practice. And then practice some more. I believe comfort and familiarity with the weapon (which goes hand in hand with safety) are the most important qualities in firearms use. I shot ***** competitively starting from 11 years old. And started teaching when I was 13. To the point where I counted rounds in the tens of thousands every year. I became so familiar with my shotguns that it was if they became a part of me. Between all the cleaning and repair it got so that I could disassemble and reassemble them with my eyes closed. I know because I used to do it (of course then doing it over with my eyes open). I am convinced that this kind of familiarity with the weapon made me a better shot. I have used and owned several revolvers and pistols and I like both. But for me I am more comfortable with revolvers, perhaps because of their simplicity. Or maybe because I'm the simple one. - Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Practice..... Practice.... No substitute. Every month, at the range... 40 round courses. No paper bullseyes, just full size sillhouette "photographs" in a configurable "kill house". M4's, MP5's, HK's, or in combination with "out of ammo on my primary" scenarios. As Harry says, "Choose Yer Poison Fellas". As flannj says, "And then practice some more".[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Maybe, but what do you expect a gun to do when you pull the trigger? True, but he didn't pull the trigger on purpose. He had a Glock stuck in his pants, and it jiggled loose -- it went off as he tried to stop it from going down his pants. Actually, the whole incident could have been averted if he'd had the gun in a holster. I do have one question about the whole incident.... Given that it was a Glock... just what got caught on the trigger?.....[:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 with everyone owning a gun on this forum I am going to need to start sporting a bullet proof vest full time, just please don't shoot me in the head or groin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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