LarryC

Groove Clean is another ultrasonic cavitation-based machine, like the Audiodesk Systeme VinylCleaner Pro that Stereophile wrote about and I just posted about in another thread. The ultrasonic cavitation cleaners are supposed to be very good, according to some. Here is a Youtube segment on the Groove Clean: The Audio Desk looks much easier to use, but does only one record at a time:

Wet washing with soap and thorough rinsing and soft paper towels used to be my preferred way of cleaning records and reducing static, and I still think it's pretty good, but a lot of work. This gizmo, which works by cavitation and surfactant, seemed more effective than any other method I've used, including hand washing, judging by how clean my dirtiest records have looked and sounded after using it. I settled on it by my own experience after others had suggested it. The price was a definite barrier, but I wanted something that worked the best without a lot of trouble. It is certainly very easy to use, and I am glad for that, since I'm now engaged in assessing and cleaning hundreds of my records. I think the article mentioned static reduction in passing. Youtube has several videos discussing it and other methods, some, including another cavitation cleaner, laughable. Static is a tough one, as it can quickly reappear with low humidity. I start getting pretty intense sparks from my finger to the tonearm lift when the relative humidity gets below below 30% on my hygrometer. I turn on the humidifier when that happens, and it helps a lot. But this gizmo does the best by sight and sound that I've seen and heard on tightly-bound dust and dirt, and static too.

Likely "Auto-correct" -- it really bugs me, I frequently have to go back and "re-correct" changed spellings that I know were right before. Like, I suspect most people, I think it's a mixed blessing, as it also corrects my fat-finger moves and ingrained misspellings...

Lotta very fine competition out there, but I didn't think the phono business was slowing down. However, I think of Shure as having a very neutral, almost uninteresting sound, and they had been dropping away from their historically most prestigious top-line carts for some time now. I suggest you go to the first post in this thread and correct the spelling (to Shure) of the title so it will be spelled in the directory where everyone sees it, and in the last post so that new posts will be correct, too. I'll try to correct it in this one.

I was clued into an ultrasonic LP cleaner about a week ago, the Audiodesk Systeme from Germany, that does a fantastic job of cleaning and improving the sound from LPs, especially dirty ones. I bought one on the recommendation of an audio distributor whom I have relied of for years. It's very expensive, doubtless well beyond most forum members' financial interest. It was written up in Stereophile some months ago (link below). I can vouch for every word of the Stereophile review, for whatever that's worth. The problem, I regret to say, is the very high price: $3500 or $4,000. Overture AV in Wilmington , DE has a few left on sale for $3,000, as much a bargain as I've heard of for this particular item, but that sale won't go on forever. https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-desk-systeme-vinyl-cleaner

Appointed and confirmed more than once by the Senate, including 10-year appointment as FBI Director (term not completed). I don't believe he ever ran for elective office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Comey

His book A Higher Loyalty is an intensely interesting read -- an exceptional writer IMO. https://www.amazon.com/Higher-Loyalty-Truth-Lies-Leadership/dp/1250192455/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524706041&sr=1-3&keywords=a+higher+loyalty+truth%2C+lies%2C+and+leadership+by+james+comey

Here are many really good pics and good info on styli, wear, and the record groove: https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+phono+stylus+wear&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiB-qq4qNTaAhUBZN8KHZhIADAQsAQIJQ&biw=2005&bih=1276

I don't get to see many close-ups like that one, but it sure don't look very good! Last makes some pricy stylus cleaner, and I think that stylus tip needs a LOT of cleaning! OnZOW makes a sticky-pad type of stylus cleaner, too. Your cantilever also looks pretty grungy. I think I'd just get a new cart and be done with trying to clean it. The actual stylus tip is far too small to be able to see whether it's worn, even at that huge a magnification. Perhaps you can find some really strongly enlarged pictures online, where you'll see flat spots on the stylus tip that represent actual wear. However, some styli have very esoteric shapes like extreme ellipticals, and you may not be able to tell what's stylus wear versus an esoteric stylus shape. So, I'd just get a new cartridge. A lot of what you're hearing may be a gummed-up stylus suspension anyway. Try Needle Doctor if you need advice.

At the time I looked into it, not long after the 5 came out, I recall the 5 was done by was a minimal, easily made change in each x-over. I didn't care for the outcome, as it intruded an audible, slightly excessive "bump" in the lower middle range/upper bass, as I recall. I think it was suggested to me that the change was because of the new enclosed backs (I'm not sure after all this time). Anyway, I thought it detracted from the smoothness and changed them back. The change was small and easily made, so I suggest you do the same thing and see which you think sounds flatter to you. I don't think there was anything weird about my bass horns by the time I got the AK-4's. I think you are referring to my earlier discovery, of factory-placed inserts in the throats of the bass horns of my 1962 B-style K-horns. I discovered these in trying to find out why they sounded so strange in the bass after I upgraded the drivers. The inserts were definitely Klipsch-installed, but were definitely non-standard. Things got much more normal after I removed them. Subsequent upgrading to the AK-4s was an excellent change IMO. Everything else is now standard, so far as I know -- the slot, dimensions, etc. The sound is fine except for a certain bass weakness, which I have always understood to be an OTL amplifier issue. A trial of VRDs produced powerful, almost excessive bass, perhaps proving the point. But, I could be wrong, of course...

Thanks. Guess I'm at the bottom!

What' the number below the avatar labeled "Member's total Reputation"?

I have never seen or heard of K-horns whose top and bottom sections were screwed together as you describe. As produced by the factory, the tops always had single bolts on each side penetrating down through a single L-shaped hanger attached on each side of the bass horn. The bass horn makes up the entire bottom section. Somebody seems to have done something on their own, which was NOT the way Klipsch took them apart and reassembled them. One possible area of confusion is where the top joins the bottom -- where the exact plane of division occurs between the top and bottom sections. The bottom layer of the top section looks like it belongs to the top of the bass section, whereas it does not. So, maybe someone got confused and tried to separate or reunite them in the wrong plane. The "C" style uses many, many screws to hold the "wrong" layers together, though I can't imagine someone making that mistake when the correct assembly is so obvious. The "B" style uses only 5 screws to do the same thing in about the same place, where more layers abut. It almost sounds like yours was a "C" whose disassembly got on the wrong track. A recent thread with great pics of this discussed how the two parts are joined.

Different generations of K-horns have different arrangements of the crossovers and wiring. No matter what you do, you'll have to figure out where to undo connections between the top hat/treble section and the bass horn, presumably at one of the crossovers. Some have the crossover mounted on the top section, some on the bottom and some have part or all of the crossovers on the inside of the bass bin (mounted on the back of the bass bin door) and some have part or all on the inside, where you can't get to them without removing the door. Maybe take a pic first if you think confusion is possible. Most of the time, it's straightforward. I myself don't recommend strapping the top and bottom together, but it sure would solve the disconnection-connection issues. BE SURE you can recreate the original polarity!! -- getting even just one driver out of phase might be a mess to undo. Put red dots on all the positive terminals and wires on both the drivers and the crossover terminals! Do this first!

I'm especially sorry to see this, because the 205 had a number of areas that could have used improvement. Most new products go through this, and one can expect, or at least hope for, product refinements over time. Two examples in the 205 are: The panel readout lighting is too dim (most competitors' readouts can be read clearly from across the room) There should be a graphical readout of the volume setting on DVDs There should be a direct response to the "VOL" changes, instead of the obscure + and - buttons on top There is something to be said for the practice of "planned obsolescence" in the form of gradual improvements, IMO

With K-horn efficiency, I've had to work at minimizing noise audibility. For example, selecting a preamp with lower gain in the line-stage section, to minimize amplifying noise traveling from circuitry prior to the pre-amp volume control. (I once had a preamp with an excessive 26 db gain in the line stage, which could only exaggerate pre-VC noise from the phono stage. My current preamp has only 4 db line stage gain!) Or, for another example, choosing a power amplifier with a low gain figure, that does not have a very high (numerically low) "sensitivity" figure for full power out. This means being careful NOT to select an amplifier that produces several hundred watts out for only 0.5 v. in -- a sure noise producer on K-horns IMO. My amp eliminated one stage of gain and probably requires 2.5 v. in for 100 watts out, a very low gain that minimizes pre-amp noise

Integrateds also are usually extremely quiet, because they handle gain-matching between the preamp and the amplfier internally. Minimizing hiss and noise can be difficult if there are mismatches between pre-amp phonostage gain, preamp line stage gain, amplifier gain, and speaker efficiency. Integrateds usually take care of all that with internal gain-matching.

I recognize some, but not all, in the pics above. Could you put down the respective brands and models, please? Thanks! Larry

But the mags are full of tests of extremely expensive equipment! That market always seemed ever smaller and more ephemeral, based on an increasingly limited extremely high income segment made smaller by increasing extremes in income equality. Stratospherically priced amps and speakers will not a healthy industry make, since hi-fi brick and mortar places are closing up and cheapening themselves right and left. Perhaps streaming is the only way for poorer and poorer middle class folks to get music and maybe good sound. I think we are seeing the depressing end result of more and more extreme income inequality. More tax cuts for the rich, and more cuts to middle class support and investment, anyone? Oppo may be a most shocking result of these trends. BTW, I got my 205 a few months ago, and just got an upgraded Basis 'table and tonearm, so I'm doing my part I guess.

I recall they were unusually dynamic amps, but suffered from an audibly high distortion level which may have been a high level of crossover notch distortion. Some felt that for smooth quality sound, they were superseded by the Jim Borgiorno fully complementary output design, as found in SAE, Dynaco, etc. I had a PL 400 that was exciting but irritating, at least on K-horns. An SAE IIICM was vastly better IMO -- that's going back a long way, though. "Mr. Bongiorno is credited with designing the first full dual-differential complementary amplifier topology that is the basis for nearly all modern solid-state amplifiers today. Certainly the name “Ampzilla” is one many audiophiles around the world fondly remember as one of the most popular amplifiers developed. James' circuit topologies are the stuff of legend, lore and imitation."

Hi Rich -- I asked a former Basis rep, who said that, like many manufacturers, AJ did use an OEM Rega arm for his entry level tables (1400, 2000...) many years ago, which he modified to work in his mount with adjustable vta. He abandoned the project after several internal wiring problems (Rega wiring). The arm was very good for the money, but once he had the Vector and moved away from more budget models, stopped doing the Rega thing. I wasn't aware of that. To get the 1400 into the market before he had his own tonearm.

RPlace -- A Basis 'table would be terrific, as you know, but a better arm than the Rega would be in order with a 1400 or better.

Look for the output voltage spec, as these can vary dramatically. That could account for your lower volume. I think those Ortofons are moving magnet (MM), which I think I recall are 5 to 8 mv out or more. I'd stay away from Moving coil (MC) which are much more demanding and usually have much lower output, that can require extra preamp stages or doo-dads and can seriously raise the cost for comparable quality. MC's often have far lower output (0.3 to 1.0 mv +) which is in a different league in demands and are frequently too low in output for ordinary pre-amp inputs. Stay away from "high-output" MC's -- basically stick to a good MM like the Ortofon OM-30 cart (I think that's supposed to be a good one).

No definitive answers from me, but many forum members have great experience with LP players and systems, so thoughts and recommendations may be along soon. I regard the three elements of an LP player to be of comparable importance (not necessarily comparable price): the turntable, the tonearm, and the cartridge. So, don't sell any one of them short. You might want to have a phone conversation with and get suggestions from the Needle Doctor, as they sell LP units components and have their ear closely to the ground. Other online retailers are probably as good. Also don't neglect your local audio retailer, say a VPI dealer if you have one nearby, since you maybe able to see, feel and try something that suits you.

The April, 2018, issue of The Absolute Sound announced in two or three places in the issue (e.g., p. 34),that the old KLH Model Nine is being refashioned for possible re-entry into the speaker market. This lead man in this is David Kelly, "a longtime veteran of Klipsch," who acquired the rights to the entire KLH line in 2017. David Janszen himself has agreed to help Kelly make the Model Nine a viable product again. Jonathan Valin writes that the Nine was always a "supremely great transducer." So, we'll have to see what these good folks come up with. No dates were mentioned.