JBryan

I know the feeling... I have a Gibson amp from the early 50's that I bought in a thrift shop 20 years ago. I remember it being a bit sticky to the touch but figured it would clean up fine. I took it home, tested it and began playing a few tunes through it. About 15-20 minutes later, I smelled smoke...but not the kind you get from an electrical fire. Rather, it distinctly smelled like stale cigarette smoke - like a bar might smell like on a Sunday morning after a busy night... only worse. I quickly realized that the 'sticky' feel was actually a very thick coating of tar that could only have accumulated over many years (probably in a bar). The tubes were also coated and after sitting around unused for gosh knows how long, they were finally warmed up enough to burn off the tar. I didn't see any smoke rising off the tubes but they were the obvious culprit. I switched off the amp, grabbed some old rags and naphtha and within a couple of hours, the amp went from dark brown (mahogany) to a light tan (leather) and I had cleaned and scraped every nook and crevice, the tubes, chassis, wires, even the speaker cone, surround and basket. The amp definitely looked and smelled better, I'm pretty sure it even sounded better and I had a couple of bags full of rags soaked with the nastiest gunk - dark brown, sticky, smelly... it was enough to make me retch. Even worse, I hadn't used gloves and my hands were sticky and stained brown. I had to wash them several times in naphtha and a few more times with scalding hot water and detergent to get the stain out... and they still had the faint stench of stale smoke for hours after that.

I had a few EML sets - both mesh and solid plates and compared them with Old stock 45's and found that they were a bit hit n' miss noise-wise and sounded better than old stock on some amps but not others. Unfortunately, I didn't have more than 1 pr of EML tubes at a time so.. grain of salt but I tried a couple of prs on the DRD's and in both cases (solid and mesh), there was a audible 'hiss' that wasn't there with most OS 45's (some Cunningham 345 balloons being the exception). While the EML's had more punch and were at least as detailed, I didn't think they bested the OS 45's in the midrange. I also tried the EML's on a Korneff 45SE amp and while greatly diminished, I could still detect a 'hiss' with my ear in the horn that wasn't there with the OS tubes. The best amp I used with the EML's was a Yamamoto A-08s and the sound was quite finessed and silent. That was the only amp that seemed a perfect match with EML's and perhaps it was built with them in mind as I've seen the combo often and have read many excellent reviews. I do recall having trouble with one EML as it died within a few hours but that it was promptly replaced by the seller/distributor. I heard more than a few tales later on about the distributer not being so responsive and accommodating. I still have my original pr of EML's somewhere and should pull them out and give 'em another listen sometime but I'm quite content with the RCA 45 ST-type pr I'm listening to now and if I'm looking for the most 'liquid' and 'spooky' midrange, I'll drop in a pr of Cunningham mesh plate balloons. Another thought is that by many folks' experience and estimates, the lifespan of the EML's are approx.1500-2000 hours and while the lifespan of OS 45's varies greatly depending on the type and manufacturer, I've had the same set of RCA 45 ST's in use (most of the time) over the span of 3 phono cartridges - that's more than 4500 hours and they're still quiet and going strong (although I haven't tested them in years). Have fun!

Oh... I get it, we're pushing the envelope here - let's see how offensive we can come across... yeah, funny! I'll play...just insert "dogs" to take a jab at that crowd...or "ferrets" ...I mean, who likes ferrets after all. Of course, if you really want a response, let's throw in "children"... can you picture that?! A couple of kids dashing around avoiding your bullets. They're small and can move around fast enough to present somewhat of a challenge for you and they'll figure out what's going on about as fast as cats would, or those d@#n ferrets (I think your dog would be too trusting to offer as much fun). I do apologize, but seriously, if you think using animals as target practice is funny - that may just be your upbringing. If you think its funny and not offensive to others, then perhaps you need to see a psychiatrist and work out some of those issues. If you just like being offensive, then by all means, feel free to attack me but please focus on my choice of amps, speakers, phono carts or wires... that's the norm around here and I'm an easy target. Be as offensive as you like - I promise you, it won't bother me one bit. Unfortunately though, you won't be able to watch me panic and run for my life, wrench with the sudden shock of a bullet entering my body or listen to me as I gasp for my last breath...but hey, I use those Cardas 'garden hose' speaker wires so that should be of some consolation for you... have at it! Again, I apologize...just felt I had to get that out there before this threat gets shut down. BTW, this thread should be shut down so the OP can get a fresh start.

Do not use 'Restore A Finish or the like on oiled wood - it works great on lacquer or other 'hard' finishes though. The best way to clean dirt, etc. from oiled wood is to wipe it down with naphtha or mineral spirits, then LIGHTLY sand with 300+ grit sand paper or sponges, then another wipe down with mineral spirits, turning/replacing the cloth often. Once dry, reapply a thin coat of boiled linseed oil or Watco's rejuvenating oil. Give it a while to soak in (20 minutes or according to directions) and wipe with a polish cloth. With normal cleaning, you should be good for another year or so, depending on humidity.

OT (I need more tubes like I need more records... or a hole in my head) but I just wanted to check in and say "HI" Joe. I hope all is well and drop me a line so we can catch up. Good Luck!

Just checking in while the next batch of popcorn pops away in the microwave and I gotta say, this has been a terribly genteel thread so far - you guys are playing way too nice! This thread is a love-fest by our standards and wouldn't even register on the scale compared with the venerable Kforum Classics like horns v. drivers, ss v. tubes and who could forget the wires v. snake-oil cable melees - I remember folks being banned during some of those threads. Anyway, no one is ever convinced or swayed as a result of anything said in these 'discussions' but its always a fun read. My only thoughts are that as with the other topics, the argument inevitably subsides and the once-entrenched stalwarts begin to accept that they may be losing their footing as the tide of acceptance rolls over them and their arguments go unheeded or worse, become trivialized. They file away their personal bias, opinions, measurements, and white papers and shuffle off to the next debate. The bottom line is that both formats have their attributes and drawbacks and any choice will come with an armful of compromises but come on guys.. pick up the pitchforks and axes and lets get some blood flowin' here!

"Is it live or is it Memorex?"...it was Memorex, it was always Memorex - we all knew and still know it. We just close our eyes and believe. If you think its hard recreating a chamber orchestra in your listening room, go see a chamber orchestra and try to make it sound like your listening room.

My bulb burned out long ago...besides, I was just joshing with ya Marty. Not knowing who the 'Usual Suspects' are, I guess I did make an assumption and with your quirky sense of humor, one should refrain from any assumptions or in my case, response. "...Horses A$$?!" Come on eth2, I was just kidding and I certainly didn't say anything about his mother or even mention STD's... but I've been called and deserved worse. Perhaps I should find a more descriptive emoticon, next time... BTW, Who's this 'Jay' fella?

Hey Marty... we're all friends here and there's very little you can discuss with the 'US' that can't be shared with the rest of the forum fellows (unless you're attempting a coup, in which case, shame on ya). Come on man, you're creating cliques where there shouldn't be... this aint high school after all!

No worries Joe. I have friends who request only classical, a couple who only listen to organ and one fella who'll only listen to Bach's music on organ. Needless to say, I don't pull out anything from Jack White or Flaming Lips when they visit...and that's OK - it gives me the chance to expose myself to music I'd rarely listen to on my own. One of my best friends passed away recently and while we grew up sharing a love of music and attended so many live shows together, he definitely had his own tastes that for whatever reason, I appreciated but never embraced. After he passed away, I was going through my records looking for something to play and only then did I realize just how many records I had picked up over the years for the sole purpose of playing for him during his visits. We both held a passion for progressive music and his visits would usually coincide with a music festival (the annual NEARfest) or one of our favorite groups like King Crimson or Yes on tour and we would listen to plenty of that music during his stay. I would also play him albums (mostly new music) that I thought he might enjoy and records that I liked and thought he should. When I was looking through the stacks, it suddenly dawned on me just how many records I had picked up through the years just for his pleasure - particularly metal bands and groups like AC/DC. I'd never consciously play these albums myself but there they were - at least 50 records, purchased solely for his visits. I started to put them aside to give to friends or Goodwill but then it occurred to me that it might be nice to keep a few around and play whenever I missed my friend. I guess my takeaway is that there's a power in music that extends beyond one's simple tastes or preference and though I may not fully appreciate the music itself, I can certainly enjoy the experience that comes with it. So Joe, I may not get into Steve Earle as much as you but I did enjoy going to his show with you and every so often, I'll pull out the album you gave me and take it all in - the music and our shared experience. BTW, you got her name right (congrats!) and know that while Roshi and I like some of the same artists, our musical tastes differ greatly. For example, she prefers the early White Stripes albums while I like the later offerings and Jack's work after the WS and while she really loves some the Flaming Lips' output (particularly Soft Bulletin and Yoshimi Battles..), she can't abide the early stuff nor their more recent efforts - all of which I prefer. The only thing we agree on with these artists is that they put on a great show.

Craig, Sorry to hear JW's not your cup o' tea but then, there's plenty of room for all types of music and tastes in the world. I will say that in my past experience it takes a few plays to really come around to JW's latest offering. With his last album 'Blunderbuss', it took maybe 3 or 4 listens for it to click with me and the same is true for most of the White Stripe albums (and pretty much any artist who tends to change their style or approach often). To anyone else, I'd suggest giving the LP a couple more spins but if its that painful an experience for you, just let it go - you're not required to like everybody... and the world will keep spinning. After all, 'Lazeretto' was Billboard's #1 in its first week and sold more records than any other release since 1993 so there's some folks out there who enjoy it.

Hey Joe! Nah... I was just on an 'Icky Thump' binge and wanted to show off the great pressing and sound quality (mastered by Steve Hoffman) to you and anyone else who came around. At least you seemed to enjoy yourself - can't say the same for every poor bast@#d that happened by. Not everyone can appreciate the music I like... go figure! Come to think about it, I don't recall you running out and buying all that great progressive music I forced you to listen to either. The White Stripes had kinda moved away from their earlier sound (especially with 'Elephant' and then 'Get Behind Me Satan') but for whatever reason, IT looped back to the early days and Jack and Meg reinvigorated the sound. I was just excited but then, you should be quite used to my 'heavy rotation' quirks by now.

Its a fun album - good music but not quite up to 'Blunderbuss'... yet. His music is varied and eclectic so I always have to give Jack's albums some time to sink in but if you like his approach to music, you'll enjoy 'Lazaretto'. The many gimmicks may get in the way but then, I think Jack was just trying to add to the vinyl experience. All the pressing devices have been used in the past - even the floating angels but maybe not combined on 1 record before now. It takes a few tries to get the hang of playing the record and even then, you may find it all a bit too much work just to listen to the music - of course, the CD/download plays straight through. I find it interesting (disturbing?) that the record comes with no instructions. If you came to it blindly, you'd have no way of knowing how to play it and in a fit of frustration, probably throw it out as junk. Of course, that may be Jack's sense of humor coming through. Another thing to note is that the 78 and 45rpm tracks under the label are not needle-friendly and I do not recommend tracking through them with an expensive cart - besides, there's not much there to enjoy. Also, the records were pressed at United in Nashville and that's rarely a good thing as their quality control is spotty so expect a few pops and ticks and other pressing problems (off-center, warped, etc). Even if you get a clean copy, expect a 'bump' on the dual groove track (starts out acoustic or electric depending on where you drop the needle, then both come together) as the grooves merge. More info here... http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/06/jack-whites-lazaretto-ultra-lp/#continued Aside form that, the record is loads of FUN! Buy it as a conversation piece to impress your friends.. and the music's great too. BTW, Jack White is touring this summer and puts on a great show - gotta catch him live. --BTW, Marty he's playing Merriweather in September - tix went on sale this morning (Fri June 13th)--

Sounds like you had a great time Dave. Know your venue...absolutely G'd@#n right! The acoustics are always the worst when I sit under the mezzanine or balcony as the sound - especially complex orchestras or rock is compressed and thick. The back of the hall also sucks whether on the orchestra level or balcony as the sound is often too boomy. My sweet spot is centered, at least 1/3 back from the stage and the same from the rear of the auditorium as long as its open (nothing above). I've particularly come to appreciate the balance from the 1st 3 rows of the mezzanine and the fact that most of the time, the tickets are cheaper is a bonus for me. Carry on...

I don't stop by as often as I used to but I still pass through occasionally while I sip my coffee to see if there's anything new in the Klipsch universe.

When the Sonic Impact t-amp first came out, a friend picked up a couple and gave me one. The amp is quite impressive for its size and it turned a few heads when I'd pull it out to test a set of speakers. With this battery-powered, 10w/ch amp and an iPod or later, iPhone, I had a sound system in my pockets and used it to test Khorns, CW's, Altecs, Tannoys, etc and though I'd never describe the set up as "high-end sound", it did sound better than some of the sellers' home systems. I recall testing a pr of Tannoy's in the back room of Gramophone (a local audio shop) and I had a steady stream of salesmen, installers even a manager stop by to listen and ask me about the amp. The 10 minute test turned into a 45 min demonstration and I probably sold a dozen of the diminutive t-amps for Sonic Impact that day.

Doin' fine Joe and keeping very busy. Thanks to you and Justin for the help - I think my broinlaw will enjoy either of your recommendations Justin though I prefer the full-ranger's specs and feel they'll sound best in his application so I'll nudge him in that direction. Of course, you're always welcome Joe...just give me some head's up and I'll fire up the system so we can listen and chat up some music - just like the good ol' days... sniff

Very nice speakers Joe... Justin. I think they fit your needs perfectly and now that you aren't limited to headphones, you can actually share your music with the wife and kids again... YAY! I have a question for both you and Justin (or anyone else but I don't want to hijack Joe's thread) - my brother-in-law is building a streaming device and using an old RCA radio I gave him. He needs a pair of 4" speakers to fit in the cabinet and wants the best sound and frequency range for the buck. If I had to guess, I'd say he's looking to spend less than $50 total. I suggested going to a local thrift and just buying a decent jam box and salvaging the speaks but I know you guys have had plenty of experience with smaller drivers and might be able to point us in the right direction. Any thoughts? I guess this is a thread jack - sorry. Congrats on the new speaks, they look great!

I enjoy bottom end as much as the next guy BUT it seems to be the convention these days for folks with xovers and multiple amps to bump their low end gain up a bit (and sometimes a lot). I've listened to several audiobuds who utilize an active xover and to a man, they have boosted their bottom end at least 5 or 6dB. How do I know this?.. I first noticed a somewhat heavier bass encroaching on the mids. I'd ask 'em if they had measured the system and if not, I would do it with them. Like polarity, its just one of my audio peeves and apparently, I'm sensitive to it. Most of my friends would freely admit that they had added a little extra gain, after all, its nothing to be ashamed of - its your system, it should sound like you want it to. Hell, when my friends come over for a listen, I'm happy to add a couple of dBs down low if they point it out - I just back it down when they leave. I prefer the bottom end 'flat' because it seems to sound more clear and coherent with the rest of the speaker. A boost in the bass tends to muddy up the low-mids a bit and that's where a lot of good music resides. I attribute this peeve of mine to the fact that I attend quite a few shows - many in small venues where the nuances of an acoustic bass are easily discerned. When I sit down in front of my system, that's what I wanna hear and perhaps in my system, a little boost from 'flat' adds a touch of distortion that may throw off the sound, staging and the illusion I'm looking for. OK...sorry for the rant. I just wanted to point out that in order for others including myself, to truly appreciate your notes and hopefully use them to listen to the tracks you've listed and compare our systems correctly, it'd be good to know how you've set your levels. Again, I'm not accusing or judging anyone and there's absolutely no reason not to listen to your system the way it sounds best to you but I just keep running into this phenomenon and wanted to mention it... I feel better now. BTW, Victor Wooten is a bass GOD! He can play circles around those that most of us consider great bass players (and they're really good). I've seen him a few times, with Bela and solo and he's a joy to watch as well as hear. While he does play the 4-string bass (Fodera) most of the time, I have seen him play 5 and 6-string rigs as well. If he can play it, spin it 'round and twirl it, I think he's OK with it.

Nice looking speaks! I had a pr of VOTT's for a short time (until I found Khorns... again). They sounded fine but as the others mentioned, they lacked the extreme frequencies and came across a bit dull. Of course, the xover and wires were original so that most likely was a factor. Compared to the Khorns, the VOTTs don't have the deep punchy bass nor the highs but the midrange was nicer. If you're willing to brace and rework the cabs, rebuild the electronics, modify the horn and add a tweeter, you'd have a very nice speaker that would easily rival the Khorn and even surpass it in the midrange.

I have a few of the testers listed. The ones you've mentioned will test all your tubes but if you ever get into older tubes (4 pin triodes for example), the 6000 (and 8000) series wont test them. The 539 b & c are the most versatile in that they allow for separate bias and voltage testing but are by far the most expensive and probably more than you'll need (unless you can find one cheap). My 2 favorites are the 605a (similar to the 600/800 series but with a voltage meter that I never use) and the 752. The 752 would be very useful if you're checking a lot of driver tubes (dual triode). It allows you to check both sides of the tube without resetting which saves a lot of time. The 600 or 800 series testers will do what you need and offer the best bang for the buck but keep in mind that none of the testers you've listed will 'match' tubes nor will they accurately indicate tube life. A tube that tests to spec on the Hickoks may be new or it may have a lot of hours on it and fail soon after you plug it in. Some modern testers are more accurate and test at actual operating current/voltage so you can match tubes (better) but they are either more expensive or very limited in the tube types they can test. Don't get me wrong, the Hickoks are great testers and they do offer plenty of useful data about tubes but they can only tell you if the tube is operating to spec at that moment, under those conditions and will not accurately indicate future, real-world performance.

Its all a a matter of taste. From my experience listening to my audiobuds' systems, including a few fellow forum members, I've concluded that no 2 people want the same sound from their system. Khorns are very good speakers on their own but as you look around the forums, notice how many different directions folks have taken with the mods and wholesale changes to this venerable speaker. There was a time on the Klipsch forum, when a thread like this would quickly devolve into a heated debate pitting the "outdated distortion box" devotees against "cold and analytical crate" followers that would almost always end with the thread getting shut down and someone being banned. Luckily, folks seem to have accepted that there is no one type of amp that will satisfy everyone and we have come to respect other's preferences. What I'm trying to say is that you will get some benefit from asking others what gear they use but you really need to hear it for yourself. Many members with Khorns, myself included, only found what we liked after listening to many other set ups and having a parade of gear running through our systems. If that's not efficient enough or economically viable for you, then I'd suggest searching through threads on this forum and others such as Audiokarma, Audiocircle and Audioasylum, find folks who share your taste in music and listen through Khorns and take a look at their systems. You may find some common gear that will give you an idea of what sounds good and get you started down the path... Welcome to the forum and have fun!

Definitely buy from a reputable dealer - if you're into tubes, its always beneficial to develop a relationship with a dealer you can trust. If you want to find the best sounding tube for your system and don't mind spending $$$, then I'd suggest buying several brands/types and listen for yourself. Each brand tends to feature characteristics that may appeal to you and match well with your unit, others not so much so there really isn't one 'best-sounding' tube out there as its very dependent on the application. Also, while these super rare and uber-expensive tubes do sound great, they're best implementation is in sensitive preamps and phono stages and remember, a good portion of their cost can be attributed to their scarcity, not just their sonics. They really don't stand out in the usual amplifier's driver stage and in most other gear, a similar but substantially more common NOS tube of the same manufacturer will provide all but maybe the last 1% of the sonics of the super tubes at a much lower price.

Definitely check the connections and if all is well with the wires and xovers, I'd suggest that you play music through them (and the rest of the gear - you didn't say if anything else has 'sat' around unused for a while). I've had speaks that took hours, even days to fully break in after sitting idle for a few years. Just put some music on and walk away for a few hours and see if there's any improvement. I use Gainclone amps with bass bins and usually leave them on 24/7 but whenever I do turn them off for vacations, storms and such, it takes about 2-3 hours until the bass bins lose that 'wooly', thick sound. Also, you say you moved into another room and you may be dealing with null points so feel free to back the Epics up against the wall and re-position them. If the room is a part of the problem, then it might help to listen to a single speak to hear if there's any improvement as the woofers may be canceling each other out.

I have a pr of Gainclone amps that Bert used to offer with his Oris bass modules and they have worked quite well over the years. While I'd prefer an SET amp on the bottom, the ones I tried either didn't offer enough 'thump' or were noisy (a Cary 845 amp - 25w/ch) and I can't abide any noise in the system. With no output transformers, the chip itself determines the frequency range and the GC's is much lower than the bass bins are capable of and they are the fastest amps I've used with the bass horns and that really makes the horns stand out. The most important feature of digital amps seems to be the power supply - a beefy one with lots of capacitance really makes a big difference soundwise. Another benefit if the GC and class-D amps in general is that they are very efficient and can be left on 24/7. With tube and other SS amps, it would take a minimum of an hour for tube amps and more than 3 hours for SS to warm up and put out tight bass. Leaving the digital amps on 24/7 gives me nice tight bass immediately and the GC uses about the same energy as a flashlight bulb at idle so its very low-cost. I've considered using a +100 watt digital amp on the bass but I didn't hear any improvement when I used a 300w SS amp so I'm not in any hurry to replace the GC's. I've also have Bert's passive xover installed in the Oris stands that also hold the GC amps but found I could achieve flatter response using an active xover. I do think in a perfect world, a passive xover would work best with these horns but I don't know enough to tweak them properly.