Mike 585

"Perks of cast iron and stainless steel pots and pans, we getsome daily iron into our diets, really." A friend/room mate's father insisted on only rising their cast iron. I also read it in the "Prince Valiant" comic whe I was a kid. I'm a believer.

Thanks to you both for the additional information. The 2505s do have autoformers and 4/8/16 ohm taps so the separate-tap options are the next thing to try. Unfortunately a very busy weekend that included adressing some computer issues has kept me from trying it out yet. I expect to have time to play with it tonight. Thanks again for the help. What a blessing the forum is. Particularly in this day and age when a very knowledgable local hi-fi dealer is pretty much a thing of the past. All the best, Mike

Thanks to you both for the input. I was hoping I could use the power amp gain control so it the level could be decreased infinitely. From my experiments with the EQ I think I'm looking for in the neighborhood of 6db. It's a pretty live room and isn't that about what I should expect to lose without corner placement? Anyway, the two suggestions you've made are easily tried and I'll see what -3db accomplishes. Is there another tap on the autoformer that will give me -6db and where can I find documentation of which tap is which? Crossover tinkering is new to me but I'm good with a soldering iron.

I would like to play with toning down the mid and tweeter volume in relation to the bass bin. They're towed in on a long wall but are not in corners due to a particularly long length to width ratio (30 x 12). So, without any help from a corner or much from the wall due to the toe-in, the bass bin output just isn't enough relatively. I've experimented crudely via a 31 band EQ and it helps. To better manage what's happening at the crossover point I'm wondering if I can use Y RCAs out of a Mac C26 into MC2505s and bi-amp--use one channel for HF & MF, the other for LF? The 2505s of course have gain controls. The Belles have AB-2s. Will this work? Is there a better way? If this can be done and yield the better blend that I hope it will, I'll likely be inclined to tackle the move to active crossovers but I'd like to try this if possible to convince myself first and it won't cost anything at this point. Thanks, Mike

I had it and used system restore from safe mode, went back a couple of days. Worked for me.

Congrat's on the sale. The temptation of stressing my marriage with bringing home another pair of speakers is removed. Good luck with the job search Mongo. All the best, Mike

This is a very interesting approach. I will be staying tuned and look forward to future reports. Best of luck with your efforts. Mike

Hi Mark, I second Big Cliff's suggestion that you look over the info on the Sherwood. My Yamaha RX-V1600 died in the summer and I replaced it with the deep-discounted Sherwood from Accessories4less. The video quality is much better than the Yammy, it runs much cooler, and the the Trinnov optimizer is hands down vastly superior to YPAQ or whatever it's called. There's an option where you focus all the correction resource to 250hz and below; it's the best bass correction I have heard. It does have a couple of operational quirks (like seemingly everything British) that are discussed in the links on the page Cliff's link will land you on. I've noticed that fellow forum member Fish has one too so you could pick his brain as well. We all know that dependability is a bit of a crap shoot with consumer electronics but I think the fact that this thing runs so cool must have a possitive effect on electronic component life. Lot of bang for the buck IMO and worth a look IMO. All the best, Mike

That was interesting. Thanks for posting.

I have an ART 351 and a 355. Neither has given me any problems and they're dead quiet, no hum or hiss.

All true and well said. But then I can't help think how long we had to put up with Dick Clark.

My Yamaha RX-V1600 stopped switching inputs. It happened last Saturday, the same day I had a freak home accident and, among some other things, cracked a vertebra and a rib. It may be possible to cost-effectively repair the Yamaha but in my situation—looking at some downtime—I wanted to the get the system up and running again quickly. I was not that impressed with the Yamaha anyway and wanted to try something different. So, without a lot of research and based on a couple of comments here on the forum, I ordered the Sherwood because it’s only $600 on closeout from Accessories4less and the Trinnov Optimizer sounded very interesting. Now the trick will be getting it hooked up. No lifting or bending for me. I’m hoping my wife has the patience for me to talk her through it.

I strongly agree with the others on the importance of having matched speakers right down to the crossovers. Even then you'll need EQ to compensate for the differing placement with just one speaker being in a corner. Or perhaps a short false corner would do the trick. It's suprising how much corner placement affects the output of the bass bin. IMO the comments about LaScalas and Belles having a harsh or too dominant mid-range and being bass deficient are really the result of poor placement. Worth mentioning though is that if you can get the single Belle for a real good price, it's worth picking up. You can continue to search for another stray Belle and a pair of LaScalas. If it works out that you find a pair of LaScalas, there's a good market for the Belle as a center for K-horns (particularly if you're willing to ship it) to offset the cost of the LaScalas. Good luck. Mike

I have an SW-12. It's pretty good sub for music and although I'm not familiar with KGs, I think it would do a decent job at that task in a room your size. IMO $400 is top dollar though. I believe they were around $1100 new. I hope that's of some help to you. Mike

Fun idea but not hot. Some of you guys need to get out more. LOL

FWIW, it's been my experience that identical mids and tweeters, including the horns, are essential for music and nearly so for home theater. I have a LaScala center between a pair of Belles. They have identical drivers and crossovers, the only difference being the K-400 horn in the Lascala vs the K-500 in the Belles.They sound very different to me. In movies it's noticable with even the sound of a car or train panning across the front. I was able to eq it close enough to fix it for movies but only replacing the K-400 with a K-500 in the center made it "work" for me for music. Mike

I have a lot of fond memories of the drive-in--I'm 56. My friends and I use to go almost every weekend in the summer. We had 6-8 of them around town. There's still one about 25 minutes south of the city. I really thought the FM transmitting idea would save them. Came too late I guess. I used to sneak 3-4 people in in the trunk of my Plymouth Fury. Once when they were charging by the car we got 11 people into a friend's VW bug. I was manning the shifter from the middle up front. I still pity the guy that was above the back seat under the window.

Hi Fritz, Yes there's an older post around where in the midst of some other discussion Bob Crites made that point. You recently explained to me precisely what this xover was doing, (slopes, etc). I believe there is also an AL-4 but no AB-3. Do you happen to know what the purpose of that update was? I'm curious because I like Bob's A4500 better than AAs ( unrecapped) but I much prefer the AB-2 to the A4500. I attribute it to the steeper slopes. Worth note, my center is a LaScala (K-400, AL-3) and it sounds significantly different to my L&R Belles (currently AB-2 K-500). K-500 Belles preferred. I'm getting ready to build a set of Belle(ish) speakers and am trying to decide what to do about networks. I'd like to try actives and experiment but a factory or measured, proven solution is likely hard to beat. I can't tolerate any noise at idle and from the little bit I've read (and no first-hand experience) actives seem to be a bit noisy--hit or miss. I'd appreciate your comments. Thanks, Mike

"There is, somewhere, a publication by Klipsch showing response curves. They are not exactly the same but pretty close. Not enough to make one favored over the other just based on that."

I agree with a previous comment to try and avoid two systems, especially in your rather small space. I've use Cornwalls for dual purpose home theatre and music and it worked quite well. For a time, I was forced to put them on the 11' short wall of the room in a 4.1 arrangement with Heresy surrounds. The phamtom center was fine with such a short L to R separation. Later, I was able to rotate and widen the setup and it's as different as night and day. So, I would advise you to consider setting up on the long wall. You'd need to use a center with the wider spacing (toed-in) but results for both music and movies will be vastly better IME. This approach is well documented here if you do some searching. Do some simple placement experiments before doing anything in your preparations that lock you into using the short wall. Best of luck, Mike

I remember the days but I can't account for some of the nights.

Sorry to hear this. I'm been a big fan since way back in the Nitzinger days. So long Bugs.

Glad to hear of your discovery and enjoyment. I think you'll find, as PWK always said, that If you can move them on the long wall it will be an another step up in WOW. All the best, Mike

Thanks for a quick reply Fritz. Here's what sparked my curiosity. I have Crites A/4500s and CT-125s in my Belles, which I feel were a significant improvement over the un-updated AAs/K-77s that they came with. I got some AB-2s in a recent purchase of some Belle top parts that I made mainly to get the K-500s for use in building another set of Belles. Just for the heck of it, last weekend, I swapped out an A/4500 for an AB-2 (leaving in the CT-125) and rather than reach for adjectives, I'll say I was suprised that the combination has some qualities I prefer to the A/4500 - CT125 and thought it might be related to the steeper slopes cleaning things up a bit. I've heard/read ALKs perspective but on the other hand I also read somewhere in the PWK Papers collection where Paul said they experimented with steeper slopes early-on but the result of the testing is that they decided to go with first order. It's all very interesting and an enjoyable journey up the learning and listening curve.

I'm not savvy in electronics so I can't determine what's going on from the schematic. I searched the site and couldn't find complete details. Details found confirmed that the x-over points are about 500 and 4500 and that the slopes are steeper than the earlier first-order designs. What I'd like to know is what the slopes are and if it does roll off the mid-range or are the upper limits determined by horn like in the earlier A, AA designs. Thanks for the help, Mike