Ski Bum

I think the saying is "there is no replacement for displacement". Also, the old drunkard's standby, "too much is just enough" seems to apply. Enjoy the music!

I have a Decware amp I'd part with. I've got it listed elsewhere right now for $600. It provides the gossamer smooth SET sound and proverbial 3-D soundstage/image holographic trickery, but only 2 watts. The Jub looking things in your avatar would make the most of what it has to offer.

Perhaps there is a local shop willing to let you use theirs. That's what I have done (a big thanks to Don the Sound Doctor in Loveland, CO). It really doesn't make much sense to invest in a bunch of testing gear for a one-off project.

Keith(OP), just for information sake, here is a quick measurement taken of a fool's bi-amped Crites x-over equipped forte II, ATI602 on woofs, Decware amp (about 2w) on the horns...ignore the lumpy bass, that's room modal response...the 2nd order (red) and 3rd order (purple) harmonic distortion is high, but it doesn't sound bad, in fact it sounds remarkably vibrant and real. Just wanted to post this to let you know what sort of thing you can expect if you try something similar. This particular configuration is very easy on the ears. The important thing keep in mind when reading this graph is that there is a close parallel between electronic distortion and musical tone coloration. Musically, the 2nd harmonic is one octave above the fundamental and is almost inaudible, yet it adds body to the sound, making it fuller. The 3rd harmonic is a quint or musical twelfth, and produces a sound musicians describe as "blanketed." A strong 2nd with a strong 3rd tends to open the covered effect. Adding lower levels of 4th and 5th to this changes the sound to an open horn-like, choral character. Is the use of tubes for the horns now starting to make more sense? Even in this fool's bi-amp setup, it has some cool results.

With the coffee and Bailey's part, presumably?

Dean, if one follows the 10:1 load to source impedance rule (as Mike, or was it Chris, previously mentioned regarding the F3 into the TAD cd), then the deviations are avoided (and look more like the three flat curves in the first image you posted, not the low impedance curves, which indeed look like roller-coasters). edit: I meant that as a question, not a statement, sorry. Oh, and I just noted the different output impedances: 1 ohm for the F3, which would be within the 10:1 realm, and the Cary's higher output impedance, which wouldn't...yeah, I'm surprised no frequency response weirdness was noticed, but then again, most rooms introduce aberrations that dwarf such minor non-linearities anyway. Whoo, perhaps I shouldn't post after Bailey's and coffee...pardon my ramblings!

Oh, shit, Coytee! You have to take a lap for that transgression.

Guttenberg may be well meaning in what he writes, and he seems to be enjoying himself, but he's clearly an unsophisticated doofus at best, and an enabler of the woo-hucksters at worst. Good work, if you can get it, I suppose.[8-)]

Moray, I can't help but think of the JBL lsr-6332 as a perfect example of Toole's concepts in practice. They are super fine and dandy speakers. Did he design them himself? No. He just wrote the engineering rule book that guided those who did.

I think you're correct regarding the CW being in general superior, but extended heritage models are nothing to sneeze at. They're all similarly big and effortless sounding, a step above KG4s. Here's my completely biased, mostly uninformed heirarchy of the models you list, from best to worst: 1. Cornwall 2. forte (original, not forte II) 3. Chorus II 4. forte II 5. Chorus (original) 6. Quartet Since you are rehabbing your Heresies, consider adding a sub. Heresies + sub is in the same ballpark as fortes and CW.

Emotiva XSP-1.

With your cd player plugged directly to amps, your amps are getting an unadulterated, non-attenuated 2 volt signal. You may be able to improve things simply by changing settings in the AVR, i.e. increase the levels for the front L and R to "0 db" or whatever the maximum setting is. You will have to turn down the gain control on the power amp so there is no net change in volume, of course, but you should get a hotter signal with better S/N to the amp by doing this. Give it a try. When using the AVR, are you using the cd player strictly as a transport and sending the AVR a digital signal? You should. Keep the analog signal path as short as possible. The DACs and pre amp output of the AVR should be as good as those in the cd player, and if not hamstrung by processing or other settings, should be indistinguishable from the cd player to amp.

My condolences to the Manley family. I think those Japanese dudes were on to something.

That's a rather compelling argument for skipping the pre-amp completely. After all, there is no pre-amp as crystal-clear, transparent and uncolored as literally no pre-amp.

My OPPO has a volume control that is controlled by the remote and I have hooked it straight to the amplifiers with good results. The only downside is the inability to switch sources, so I am not running it direct right now. Alternately, you could use an amp with gain controls. I prefer that route myself, running the source full hot to maximize S/N on the signal feeding the amp. No remote, of course, but que sera sera. Weather you use Chris' method (AVR), Dan's, or mine, the gist is this: once the signal is converted to analog, get it to the amps as directly as possible, sans any intervening analog stages, as they can be either transparent or less than transparent, but not more transparent.

You are smarter than your AVR, even if it has more sensitive ears. Try dropping the levels manually by 7.5 db on all channels. This should bury any residual upstream noise. You will get more useful range on your volume control, too.

I recommend going straight for the good stuff in the Caribbean and Brazil. It's much sexier, and no damn accordions.

Matt, it is probably worthwhile to hold off on a sub for now. First, to soften up the wife. Second, to save the ducats for a good sub. You can always turn the volume down on a good sub, but you can't turn the quality up on a cheap sub. Avoid misspent funds, and get one you won't regret. Michael, I wouldn't bag on Klipsch subs too much. Your subs in particular are friggin' awesome, if not the greatest value out there. You went with the 650 THX mains, didn't you?

CANT, do you have any means to measure the results? You should, so your efforts are not a shot in the dark. REW and a calibrated mic is a powerful (and cheap) approach.

I would like to hear what BEC has to say on this, too. In the OP's case, the modifications in question are specific, BEC crossovers and ti tween diaphragms. Unless I'm totally misled, the crossovers from him follow the exact same schematic as stock but with tighter tolerance caps, and a larger autoformer. The ti diaphragm is measurably smoother and more extended than the stock phenolic. While that is not a huge smorgasbord of choices, how are they any more poorly chosen than the original parts?

I like to think of it as the perfect foil to the SET amps. ATI amps are superbly engineered class a/b solid state with impeccable performance. They just provide transparent and seemingly effortless power, and can drive whatever weird load you hook them up to. To see one, even if it is cosmetic b-stock, for $250 (!!!!), that's a ridiculous bargain. EDIT: I see they have raised the price to $299. [^o)] Still a good deal for ATI.

I'm pretty sure MiniDSP can do time alignment and any filters you need. Use the Mac on the bass bins, get a 2A3 or 300B SET for the top. Or that Pass F3 (didn't you just get one of those?).

dp, sorry.

I'm a SET guy, and as such am often faced with a situation where the SETs crap out. So I keep a respectable ss amp in reserve should the need to rock out properly strike. I saw this, and if I didn't already have one I would buy it. So for fellow Klipsch heads in search of textbook ss power on the cheap, here you go: http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at602-two-channel-x-60-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html For $249, that is a great deal for a US made amp with 7 year warranty. It's just about the ideal match for Heritage or other big Klipsch. I would highly recommend this ss amp, and is such a good deal I thought I would post it here.

You simply need loudness compensation. I'm sure your Yamaha AVR has such a feature, perhaps called Dynamic Eq. Engage that for low level listening.