Audible Nectar

....and if it's legal to talk about tubes on the Klipsch Forum is the fact that I'm using those tubes to drive aftermarket drivers in Klipsch cabs and geometry grounds to make my posts not valid or allowable? I'm not trying to be facetious here but genuinely trying to figure out just where I do or MIGHT fit in here anymore and how to handle this topics. EVERYTHING I post whether it be speakers or gear could get called in for "review" in my own mind anyway....and in fact has me "reviewing" where this all goes for me posting here. Is the generality of Klipsch cabs/schematic/horns with aftermarket drivers even within the realm of allowability, even when discussing the gear that drives them?

But therein lies the problem. It seems a nebulous and moving standard. It's like the Obscenity Standard - "you know it when you see it". The problem is that can be very fluid and lead to more problems than it solves. Make a set of rules then enforce them. There should be a "sticky" on this topic laying it all out in the "updates" or other prominent section of the forum. I've been reading between the lines here for three days and still don't know the EXACT rules and approach I should be employing here (this after not much time over two years in between). If I can't just look up what the new rules are here they are gonna get broken by people unintentionally too.

Just thought I would bump this to let you know that the subject and replies did NOT go unanswered or unheeded - the winner is McIntosh for the new front end, and it is GLORIOUS. Went with the MX151 (thanks to USNRET) and a brand new MC255 (5x200 with the new thermal track transistors) and OH MY is it EVER a hit. The idea was to upgrade the system in a manner what would have it set for the next 25 years and aside from sources the system core of amp and speakers ae now ready for "The Duration". After a solid 100 hours on the kit after install it reveals every day more of why I know I made the right choice - the control of the speaker, the high frequency extension (not rolled off in any fashion - just a superb "finish"/decay), the commanding authority that one would expect such a big beast to impart. So the inquiry DID result in a raging success, despite the rime taken to build it all out/install/evaluate etc etc etc....it's very cool to have a system for which such a restoration had been envisioned/planned and to actually see that come to fruition is a real notable step here in my "audio life" as it is what I envisioned as an end game" sort of rig that I can enjoy (albeit changes in sources as is the norm) until I pass. ALL of the suggestions and advices are appreciated.

Count me in as another who has no idea where I fit here anymore. I have been a VERY occasional visitor over the last couple of years, but a 20 year member with a lot of road traveled, making contacts with forum members I have had relationships with over the years to do "The Lifetime Restoration" on my four pairs of Klipsch cabs. I basically did all four as Crites woofers, MAHL tweeters, A55G and Dean's high end parted networks. I spent the last two years building them out/restoring the cabs, all basically "drop in" replacement - sticking with the PWK "geometry and schematic" with aftermarket replacement parts. I did it because I could easily source the parts, many report good results from them, and I could do the work myself, allowing for the restoration of the cabs such that I could enjoy them for another 50 years as they have to date. I also spent extensive time actually sampling those parts. And now I don't know if I can go any further - or if point of fact I went too far already. I also don't know what the rules exactly are. As I told Dean in a conversation - "This all looks like 'The Obscenity Standard' " where one (the deciders/moderators) "know it when they see it". And as one who has been here for 20+ years but not much recently I have to wonder if I'm even ALLOWED here. I don't have anymore "stock"/all Klipsch parted speakers anymore albeit redone with drop-in replacement parts. But as one who rally WANTS to know (because I really don't want to grind gears here trying to find out) I'm just trying - from the POV of one who just finished both systems in terms of speaker resoraion and electronics updating, thought I would report the builds - to know whether I should or if it's acceptable. It seems not. So now I'm thinking I better not, because I have NO IDEA what the rules are other than that the forum is apparently shunning anything "not Klipsch" (there own it and is their right). Even if it means that I "should show myself the door" I DO think those remaining deserve to have a "standard of practices" around here rather than what seems to be "The Obscenity Standard" where that definition is in the eyes of the beholding moderator. Made less blurry, it becomes SOMEWHAT easier to apply that standard (albeit understood that it will still have issues). Just trying to set my compass/GPS here.....

Just.....wow. Dean's building crossovers for Klipsch and now you are back on the forum. Another 20 year guy here still chugging along: Still have the Peach (which I use as a backup a couple months out of the year to keep it working well/operational which in itself is a testament to it's sound) and now with the four sets of 50+ year old Heritage now completely restored (also known as "how I spent my pandemic......") 🙂 I've also taken that "no processed/no fried" to heart here too, my wife and I have lost a collective 100 lbs and carry proper weight for our frames (myself personally for the first time in my life, the changes happening over the last five years). I'm also not too far off from the "one meal a day" thing - I find one good meal and a couple of snacks/items keep me plenty lean and more energetic. I still remember those discussions about how you used to feed your dog and how you thought people should be eating and I internalized a lot of the essence of that discussion. I have had a TON of surgery on my orthopedics and keeping good weight and condition with age is really important. It has massively improved/extended our quality of work and life. So you still have some "ruboff effect" here as I'm still benefiting from your builds and advices. It's hella good to see you in here, sorta feels like Reservoir Dogs 'round here lately, getting the gang back together to do more "crimes of the systems", LOL. ....and seems a bit fitting as the recent pandemic era served to allow to rejuvenate the two systems that I have had here all along. So no real Juicy Questions as I've not had issue and really like that piece for what it is, but it's sure good to see you back here.

Wow, didn't even get a chance to ask what caps they had, LOL......

I had really good luck with my Peach - in fact I think it the most viable of all of those units long term in that the rectifier didn't have to run those phono section tubes, etc. Easy, stripped down line stage which suited my purposes well. Have a friend with one too with similar results. Only replaced it for phono......and still have it as a backup, which I roll in once a year for a month just to get its exercise..... Both of us have VRDs and the Peach mated with those great. Yeah it's a bit tube picky but once I found one it held. And the imaging for the $$$$ is unparalleled, along with its ability to convey the naturalness of instruments at such a value price. It WAS noisy with some other amplifiers, my Mac MC250s didn't get along with it so well as the input voltage sensitivity was too sensitive for the Peach such that it was noisy/hissy even with good tubes. Just a mismatch. With VRDs, a match made in heaven. I moved on to the NBS, where I have phono stage and the ability to roll in teflon caps, and it's free of those aforementioned issues. It took more work to get the image and the "layering" to show up (teflon caps and Siemens tubes really made this piece leap off the page). It's another animal entirely on a performance level, but I'll never say anything bad about a Peach as very few gears delivered that musicality for that price. I think the Original Peach was the best JM pre made. If a person likes it they will go through hello trying to get a suitable "ear happy" as they did from this. It will cost considerably more, and really, the JM sonically was a unique sound in the marketplace. They really were "just for us".

I think the Cornwall is as good of a "stock" hi-fi speaker as the world has ever seen. The cabinet is of such a dimension that it sounds naturally good (it approximates the golden mean in its dimensions), while the one inch horn throat makes it sound "open" enough that it is now no longer something that seems restricted in any way. Of course we can talk about the Klipschorn as being truly the game changer here, but I have always seen the Cornwall as one of the all time great speakers from ANY brand as it has so much right in stock form as well as being a flexible product that most can find space for.

Lost 55-60 lbs in the last four years, gave up the processed foods, fried, and sugars and stay with the simple stuff. When you eat GOOD food, you need less of it and your brain "pings" you a helluvalot less when you feed your body things it NEEDS instead of things you just "like". Why does your body always harangue you that it's "hungry" when you eat this junk? Because it's devoid of any real substance/nutrients - the body doesn't get what it needs - it harasses the brain to "feed me". Most do this to the point of 300 lbs (it's the American Way), but in reality it's the human body knowing it needs fed, then it's owner feeing it something it doesn't need as well as make the body obese. Once the "code" is cracked, it becomes pretty easy. If I eat that stuff now, my body reminds me in short order why I gave that up, OTOH staying with good, real, simple foods leaves the body satisfied, and extends the stamina such that I have better energy and am in better health now than at any time during my life. ESPECIALLY since the pandemic - all restaurant stuff (save for high end places on special occasions, like Tom Colicchio's Craftsteak in Las Vegas) is out the window. We have cooked over 95% of the consumed meals here in the last two and a half years, which gives even greater control over what I'm putting in my mouth as I control all of the acquisition choices and cooking methods. I shut down the takeout and convenience foods and shed the weight almost effortlessly. Once I got going it was like melting ice. It took about six months to acclimate, but after that, it not only comes naturally but is self reinforcing because the results feel so good, which leas to more good action (like having the energy to do actual work/projects outside of employment, etc) and bring even more good results. My wife got in on the party and she now has the best health and figure of her life and I can certainly vouch for the last 25 years. She resembles pics from her 20's. Once one sees this in action and experiences this with food choices it's easy because it's hard to "unknow" and going back to feeling like you do when loaded up on all those carbs and sugar. It really is self reinforcing.

Well, I ended up purchasing two Tripp-Lite Isobar units for the comp÷digital/low draw end of things and a pair of Zero-Surge for the audio component end of my systems. These boxes are just the type of build I was looking for and appreciate, even the value-priced Tripp Lites being well worth the $$ for the build, and the Zero-Surge being lifetime-industrial grade and thus very solid pieces. It's been 15+ years since updating this sort of stuff from the old system build so I thought it good to do an overhaul, and even finding these at a value as the base Zero-Surge sale prices ended up being the totality of the bill and sent on a 10 day build to order basis. Appreciate the help, the build should resume this week....getting close now 🙂

Whoever makes the effort to get these won't regret it. Oh, and as good of a rep as the VRD amp has, the pre is even better (and rare taboot). Does this have a phono stage in it, and if so Moving Mag or coil - or is it line stage only?

Yeah, I guess I could do that but given the DIY I've done with this system build (right down to my own wire with terminus as well as speaker internal connections) I figured I could just buy one off the shelf. Just might end up going that route....

Well, I did "both" - the Zero Surge for audio system use, and the Tripp-Lite for the computer/office end. I'm still looking for a unit like this - I want one "four way" with a heavy gauge cord. Thought finding one with just a four outlet box like this would be easy to find but I guess not. Am I just looking in the wrong place - figured this would be automatic at home improvement stored but I guess I'm wrong......

Just finishing the upgrades and starting install of my Cornwall Theater, where the old school Cornwall II will stand at Center. All of these speakers have been redrivered and new crossovers built: Crites 1526 woofers. John Allen A55G midrange drivers, SMAHL lens tweeters, and MultiCap RTX goodness (in a B2 configuration) in the crossovers. They sound what I would expect a new pair of upper-four-figured speakers should sound like, which is to say that they make quite the impression, and are so much more than a "simply rebuilt pair of Cornwalls". I have this feeling like "I really outdid myself here" but there's definitely merit to reworking these.

I did this to a pair of Belle Klipsch with very good results. Fixed a bit of that "lower midrange suckout" and was a nice improvement to the system without changing the essence of what that speaker is.

I was simply responding to veloceste's question. nothing more or less.

Yes. Tube systems take about 2 hours until they reach full operating temp ad the images present themselves as they are capable and should. I've not measured it. Is there a measurement instrument designed to assess/convey how well a speaker images??

Teflon capacitors have a break-in period - a rather lengthy one too, and it's not subtle. Some of the early versions (see Cardas Golden Ratios, holy smokes) have such a lengthy time on break-in that manufacturers and sellers started burning those types in at voltage before sending them out (like V-Cap does now), because in some instances they were never run in long enough to know what they sounded like. Who the ---- is gonna run a piece of gear for over 1000 hours to finally evaluate the damned thing? I've done several gears with teflons and they are the craziest things I have ever seen in this business. I am convinced the Cardas caps "failed" in the market because nobody waited long enough to hear how good they were. This is plainly evident in reviews. Mind you I have played with a bunch of these, and when I can nod along with cap comments over and over on a review, knowing full well what the reviewer is talking about, well, let's say I've heard some caps 🙂 I just completed the setup on a NOSValves NBS preamp with a set of Cardas Golden Ratios from NOS stock - I logged 1500 hours on that preamp before they "bloomed". No ---- I had replacement caps all lined up because I gave up on them - literally thought I had something wrong with the unit potentially, and in a final power on and series of checks before I boxed the thing up - they finally bloomed, and as stated previously, it's NOT subtle. I think the teflon cap "takes the prize" when it comes to legitimate break-in characteristic. It's like a "gestation period". Nothing like those in this biz whatsoever. They're almost maddening, but worth the wait 🙂 Everything else in the realm of electronics had much more subtle aspects to this. In areas where I have done this repeatedly (see the wholesale replacement of the drivers on all of my Heritage to MAHL/A55G/Eminence MFG equivalents as an example). I got the opportunity to really "play" with this aspect of new drivers, as with each pair reconstructed I was able to evaluate those speakers over a 30-50 hour period - over and over again, though each of the four builds. On each, it was clearly identifiable how the imaging would "lock in" over that first 20ish hours or so. Not too much "change" in as much the perceptible frequency response, but the image would start to really show up about 20ish hours in, when we discover what a difference those tweeters really make. The speakers got "taller". To a lesser degree I do see this in newly built components, like power amplifiers, where I don't really judge the amp until it starts to show more of that "flow" that the break-in imparts. It's very subtle and I've yet to meet an amp (absent teflon, of course) that "changed the game" from that process. There is a change over a couple hundred hours though..... Being one who DOES respect the break-in process, I can pretty much say in most instances that you're not likely to see huge changes that warrant a return of new gear vs. not. Like a new mattress I would always have the client fidget with the system for 30 days, so we can find out as much as we can about how well (or not) things are working. Most who do this haven't had the repeated over and overs with similar gears like I have (I've broken in THREE VRD sets from new, four Heritage speaker rebuilds just recently with same parts over and over) as well as MC30's rebuilt over and over and over, so I've got lots of practice and repeated looks at this. It IS a real thing but in all but the case of teflon, and maybe those Duelands and similar "esoteric" it's not likely to be enough of a game changer to go "hey, that break in made these a keeper". The only component I can definitively say that applied was with the teflon capacitors in audio path/coupling positions, with that exception the concept is really pretty much over estimated in it's importance. I would tell anyone with new gears to use/keep/run it for a while and see what you can learn, even if initial impressions aren't great. You're likely to get better benefit on a set of new Cornwalls by trying a few varying positions along the walls, or angles, etc that the break in will ever be, especially once you pass 20+ hours or so.

I have always been told to plug amplifiers into the wall directly, whereas the other, lower current draw and digital-gear would do well on one of these type of units. I have a Panamax I use for that sort of gear on the HT but was asking in this case about "hard strips only" without anything else because it was my understanding that for amplifiers that's the best approach.. That said I'm all ears for the other options including protection but was told not to do this for power amps. I'll listen/read more opinions here....

Where's a good place to look/source some rock solid power strips? Let's say a six-ish strip or block that's solid, no "circuit breaker/conditioner", in other words the kind that you would hook up an amplifier to (where you want nothing limiting the current pull from the receptacle). Looking to "multiply"/extend a couple of outlets that would make my two audio installs go easier. All I see in most places are cheap plastic stuff or "surge protectors" mounted into super cheap hardware, looking for "outlet strip" that will serve rock solid electrical purposes with no bells/whistles or "snake oil". Ideas??

I guess that means I probably shouldn't post about how it took two years getting those coupling caps right in my NBS. I literally spent 1500 hours getting the current teflon formulations to open up so I could hear what they really sound like.....almost gave up on the damn things.......now I know why V-Cap runs juice on those before sending them out..... And that's no BS.

There are a number of Klipsch forum members who can attest to the lengths I will go through to avoid stuff like this. College Station TX was a helluvalong way from here, LOL.

I was wondering if my Quentin Tarantino foot joke triggered something in someone.

Agree with this. I double-dynamatted my new Cornwall midrange horn rebuilds and am rather surprised at the results. I did the same to my new stamped metal woofers to even more good results.

Excellent😇 ::shakes cyberhand ::