MechEngVic

There's no doubt that active crossovers are largely beneficial when bi-amping, but consider the simple benefits of "fool's bi-amping" as mentioned. Separating the high and low frequency sections of your speakers makes each section act as a separate speaker, with its own crossover, frequency response curve, impedance curve, and input impedance. You'll have more control over each section, and if you take the time and effort to learn each amplifier's characteristics (and if the amps have gain controls), you can have even more control. You could implement modifications to each passive crossover section so their impedance curves plot better independently, together with their associated amp, and with the other sections of the speaker, similar to what you can do actively. Running a separate amp and wires is just the beginning. A few resistors may be all you need to make beneficial changes to crossovers. A measuring mic, measuring software, and crossover modeling software can be tricky to learn but will help you see where improvements can be made, and will help with active crossovers when you're ready. The time and effort you put in and what you learn will be the real benefit.

Waiting for the big reveal.

Most people over 40 have hearing loss to about 15Khz. It's not due to over exposure, it's just age. I recently found I have extra hearing loss in my right ear. I had been trying like crazy to fix what I thought was a lower volume right channel. I went over my amp and preamp and did a bunch of tube swapping. Then I had the crazy idea to turn my back to my speakers and listen. The lowered volume was now in the left channel.

So can you give us a comparison of your Stonehedge's vs. K-Horns? My guess is that the soundstage is more accurate and maybe even wider with the Stone's but better dynamics and volume with the K's. Please set us straight.

PRV Audio D230Ti-B 1" Titanium Horn Compression Driver 8 Ohm 2/3-Bolt. under 60 bucks for a pair, modify existing horn lens to fit bigger 3 bolt pattern.

I built 6" stands nor my KLF-10's. No noticeable change in bass response. Just 2x6's and 4x4's.

I don't think I've seen vas measurements for horns or other high frequency drivers, they tend not to be cabinet dependent.

I hear you, at one point you're gonna have to build and measure.

If you can find an image of the curves, you can use my method to make your own zma and frd files.

You can use the image in this PDF to make the X-Sim files, both curves are on the same graph, just make two separate trace files, just be careful when you're tracing them. Alpha_8A.pdf

I got lots of help from Maz4bz in his post where he modifies his KG 5.5's. The frequency response graphs of the woofers and tweeters of the KG's are similar to the KLF-10. In fact the high frequency driver is the same (the horn shape is different). The files are for use with X-Sim and they will get you close to what your looking for. When you incorporate the different woofers you'll be using, you can use to method in my other post to copy their graphs and make them X-Sim files. KLF10Factory.dxo Parallel woofers.zma tweeter.frd tweeter.zma woofersv2.frd

Check out Amir's dac reviews over at Audio Science Review, you'll be surprised at how good of a DAC you can get for not too much money. My Topping D30, laptop with usb cable, and foobar 2000 does good with high res files. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/audio-dacs-streamers-servers-players-adcs.8/

I think I just got what you're saying: Exporting a text file for a graph you yourself generate. If you generate the curve then you can pull a text file from it, you wouldn't have to manually trace it. I guess I should have mentioned that my process is for curve images you get from the manufacturers, or copy off of a website or even an image grab from a another forum member's post.

The most common frequency and impedance info I have been able to find are the curves in image form. The process I outline turns the image into a text file which you can use in X-Sim by changing the file extension. You can edit the text file before putting it into X-Sim. Once you learn it, tracing a curve and making the X-Sim file takes less than 5 minutes. Where can we get the text files you mention?

So is your problem with the sound of the tube amps that the highs are too harsh? Or are the highs too rolled off? Can you measure frequency response? There is a phone app named "Spectroid" that can make simple frequency response diagrams that might help you see the troubled frequencies. You can use youtube to play frequency sweeps.

PWK, thank you for showing us where the music lives.

It does not have a dedicated subwoofer out. From the reviews I've read, many say it sounds much better than they expected, sounding as good as amps costing much more. If you wanted to try a tube amp and save money, this would be a good choice.

X-Sim is a free, easy-to-use, and effective software tool for modeling passive crossovers. I am not claiming mastery of the software but I learned how to turn an image of a frequency response or impedance graph into the required .frd and .zma file, and I wanted to share. I found another program, Vituixcad, which is another free software tool, but this one, from what I can tell, is a complete speaker design software suite. All I know about it so far is how to use the "SPL trace" function to create the files for X-Sim. I'm sure this program does what X-Sim does but I haven't delved into it. X-Sim is great for building new passive crossovers, and almost indispensable for modifying/upgrading existing crossover designs. https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/Software.html http://libinst.com/Xsim/XSimSetup.exe If you have the frequency response and impedance graphs, along with some of the driver's specs, you can do this. Here are the FR and Z graphs for the FaitalPro H-111 high frequency driver: Open up Vituixcad, open up the "SPL Trace" tool, and import the FR graph image. Adjust the high and low amplitude limits of the graph by moving the horizontal green and blue lines to the highest and lowest spots on the curve. Type the db level of those limits on the left side of the window in the fields next to the green and blue squares. Use the vertical yellow and purple lines on either side of the graph to establish the frequency limits and type in the graph's values in the fields next to the yellow and purple squares. Make sure the "Z Axis type" is set to linear. On the left side above the blue square, you will click the "Trace SPL" button then start clicking along the curve itself. The curve will start turning red where you click it. It can take several clicks to turn the whole curve red and some parts will need repeated clicks to get the red line to fit the curve. Make sure the whole curve is red then click the "Export" button above the blue square. This will create a text file (.txt). Right click on the .txt file and change the extension type to .frd. Take the same steps for the impedance graph, but use the horizontal aqua and red lines to adjust the high and low impedance limits, the aqua and red squares on the right side of the window to put in the high and low values, and use the "Trace Z" and "Export" buttons on the right side of the window. Type the driver's impedance rating in the "Re" field on the right lower side. Use the yellow and purple lines and fields the same as on the FR graph. Rename the impedance text file from .txt to .zma. Your files are now ready for X-Sim. In X-Sim, drag a driver icon onto the design window, right click on the driver and click "tune", this opens a small window. For the "FRD Response File" field, click the folder, find and select your created .frd file. Do the same for the "ZMA Impedance File" and your created .zma file. Close the small window, add a trace from the amp to the driver, then add a ground to both the amp and the driver, and you should see both your frequency response and impedance files show up on the graphs. Now you can build your crossover!

The center fronts of my KLF-10's are 33 inches away from their back wall, 7 feet apart (centers), and towed in 45 degrees. They are on either side of my desk in a near-field setup. I've become addicted to close up listening. It's like headphones with still a room-full of bass, and no room reflections. I actually built 6 inch stands for them so my ear would be between the woofer and the tweeter. They are extensively modded but some of the best improvements were positional.

Pulling the speakers away from the wall behind them adds depth to your soundstage. The spot between the low and high frequency drivers is the vertical sweet spot IMO. Looks like you're a perceptive listener.

I'm more of a landscape photographer. I am actually mildly intimidated by portraiture. Here are a few L.A. faces:

SoCal didn't take your child. If anything like that ever happened to one of my kids (who were both born and raised in SoCal and are wonderful people), I would blame myself before I blamed anyone around me or the society in which they live; even though it is not the parent's fault either. Some people, like you obviously, will try to find someone or something to blame for something that hurts them and theirs. But if you ever decide to take your head out of the sand and work through your grief, you will find it's not about blaming, life hurts us deeply sometimes and it's not anyone's or anywhere's fault. You blame the drug dealers, well what about the Pharma companies that get millions addicted, not just thousands? You blame SoCal but did you know that the greatest ratio of population-to-addict is in the SOUTH? I am deeply sorry for what happened to your son, many families including mine, have felt the toll of drug addiction. I hope you'll try to let go of blame and move onto the next stages of your grief.

This is the kind of crap that proves the willful ignorance and prejudice of some people. I've been to Tennessee (have family there) and it's a beautiful state with beautiful people (most of them anyway). This is the L.A. I live in:

A man left his city to live in a city in another state. When the man got to the new city's gates, he asked the gatekeeper for permission to come in. "How was the city you came from?", the gatekeeper asked him. "I hated it there. All the people were jerks and the people running it didn't know what they were doing.", the man answered. The gatekeeper told him "You'll find that this city is much the same, you'd better move on." Another man left the same city as the previous man to move to the same new city. When he got to the gates, the same gatekeeper asked him "How was the city you came from?". "I loved it there. The people were wonderful and I will miss them. The city had its problems but we took care of them as a community.", the man answered. The gatekeeper told him "You'll find that this city is much the same, you'd better come on in."

If you buy 8 ohm woofers recommended by k-horn experts on this forum, you should be ok with the crossover recommendations they also make. If you get your own set of 8 ohm woofers that are close matches, then you might have to do some attenuation, which is easily done with the addition of resistors to the crossover. You'll get plenty of help with all that here. With that said: There are several factors, other than size and impedance, that affect how a driver will perform. Since you're going for a k-horn setup, I would without a doubt stick to the info you're gonna be given here. 6.5 ohm for the tweeter is fine. Listening tests will determine the final series of adjustments.