mark1101 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Now I understand where you are going. Down to 100-80 hz.........and sub....which you haven't said much of anything about yet. Excellent reasoning and design principles. I will be over to hear those. Good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Well I can't fit the MWM there. So I'm gonna have to find a horn sub that will complement and keep up with this. I'll be gettin' closer to you set up then.[] jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Cool project. Awesome work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Bentz. Have you heard any of the horns from Ramsdell Pro? I exchanged emails with them about their midbass horns. They are tractrix. The 10 and 12" have a phase plug. I thought that was interesting. Of course....none of them will go as low as what you are looking for. http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/midbasshorns/MBHs.html The 15" 90 Hz Cut Off Horn and the 12" Phase Plug are the exact same width and height and are used in one of their speaker sytems.... http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/fullrange/cph3.htm As far as drivers..... RCF makes a 10" driver in its own sealed chamber that will mount to a horn. You can buy the phase plug that goes with it. I thought it would be cool to build a tractrix horn and try out that driver and phase plug.....see attached.... jc No I haven't, very cool stuff. I wonder how well that phase plug performs. I visited a buddy from work last weekend who's got a huge PA system and we spent the whole day tearing his speakers apart. I came across a very interesting phase plug inside the EV MTL-1....looks pretty easy to build without fancy tools too. It's a bit different approach from that ramsdell stuff though. I only bring it up because he crosses that 10" midbass module at 2.5kHz and it sounds amazing....I was very surprised, especially considering the tweeter sits inside the mouth of the midbass horn. If I do a removable baffle, then it would be a piece of cake to experiment with different phase plugs. I think I might try to build some out of hard foam and carve it out with a knife. I dunno if there is much advantage though because I eventually plan to use the K402 and it's good to really low frequencies. So what's the current plan for subwoofage? Tapped horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 So what's the current plan for subwoofage? Tapped horn? Two Titan T48's. Will be completed in a couple of weeks. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 So what's the current plan for subwoofage? Tapped horn? Two Titan T48's. Will be completed in a couple of weeks. jc Now that should be very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Not doing the outside curves for now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Looks good........how's it sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Very nice horn jc! What was the location of the loudspeaker in the room for this curve? mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 I goofed Here is the same test run curve with the upper Hz parameter out to 5K Hz. This is sitting 2 feet out of a corner/floor. I did horizontal polars. On axis goes out to 2K. Off axis 15 degrees drops off at 1750Hz. At 22.5 and 30 degrees off axis, drops off at 1600Hz. The low end drops off at about 70-80Hz on or off axis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 I have an issue. Currently a thrown together system is what I have pictured. The bass bin with K31's wired parallel, A 223 Hz tractrix horn with JBL2446 2" drivers, and crites tweeters. I have an Ashly Active analog XO unit..new. I'm also using an ALK ESN5800 mid-tweet network. I can attenuate the mid or tweet on that network. Biamping and can change the low-mid XO on the fly. Anyway....I have my jbl 2446 "attenuated" on an autoformer ~-9dB and the tweeter unattenuated. This tweeter can't keep up. I've run curves and I can't get from 6000Hz and up to match my mids. I know I can "backwards wire" the autoformer......but gonna ditch it. Going to triamp for now just to hear a mono system for now. The midrange is nuts. Can't really comment on the bass bin....need to listen more. I don't have a sub yet.....so doesn't "sound" complete on the low end. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 OK. Triamp is good. MC250 on the mid and tweet. Crown XTI on the bass bin. Got it balanced....sounds very good. That JBL 2446 is pretty amzing. I toggled between 4000 and 5000Hz on the top XO. There is a difference in sound.....I think I like 5000Hz better. Now.....NEWSFLASH!!!!! I was switching between low end XO of 400 vs 800Hz. I like the 800Hz better...BBUUUTT......It fried my XTI amp at 800Hz on the bass bin! I only had it there for a bout two songs and was lovin it. Then...Crash! I then hooked up the bass bin to my other MC250......very nice. I ain't messin with Crown XTI's again. I have a D75 and love it. I need to listen more... jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 What happenned to the XTi? Did it blow up? Software crash? Speaker blowed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 amp is toast. speaker is fine. very tight midbass. So Bentz, So seeing what FR this bin can do, what are your thoughts on how it will "sound" over 1000Hz with the right driver. The mass roll off of the K31 is upper 300'sHz so I don't thingk that would be too good. Dual 10's and 12's will "work" in this setup. Each throat is 45 sq in for a total of 90 sq in. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Sorry about your XTI............but it is probably better off now.........and so is your system. [] I don't understand how you stressed the amp though. You probably were not asking more than a few watts out of it. The crossover point should not have mattered too much in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 It wasn't that loud. besides......I was running them on raw curves with pink noise for awhile. The funk got the best of them. Oh and yes.......the MC250 sounds better. The bummer is that I was saving that amp for the subs. I will need to use some shelving and some EQ...the XTI would have been handy. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Whip out your Behringer dcx2496. Perfect for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Yes it would be. Although...I may need that for something else. I may just buy a Europower 2500 amp for subduty only. Don't have the subs right now anyway......so no rush. Can the dcx2496 be controlled by computer interface? I forgot. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 OK. Triamp is good. MC250 on the mid and tweet. Crown XTI on the bass bin. Got it balanced....sounds very good. That JBL 2446 is pretty amzing. I toggled between 4000 and 5000Hz on the top XO. There is a difference in sound.....I think I like 5000Hz better. Now.....NEWSFLASH!!!!! I was switching between low end XO of 400 vs 800Hz. I like the 800Hz better...BBUUUTT......It fried my XTI amp at 800Hz on the bass bin! I only had it there for a bout two songs and was lovin it. Then...Crash! I then hooked up the bass bin to my other MC250......very nice. I ain't messin with Crown XTI's again. I have a D75 and love it. I need to listen more... jc JC. My 4-way (with 1 st order passives) all horn setup features (each of 2 front channels) single MWMs bin with K33 to 200 Hz, Peavey MB-1 Midbass horn with Phase Plugged 12" Peavey Black Widow (4" VC) from 200 to 1Khz. the "Elephant Butt Cheek" JBL 2360 with the 2446 driver (much better than my excellent EV DH1a) from 1,000 to 6,000 Hz, and Twin BEC DE/ME-10 Super tweeters 6,000 on up to whatever. I really like the JBL horn driver combo and it was the "biggest" (literally and figuratively) improvement in my stacks. So I'm not turprised you like that driver. Much cheaper than a TAD and not that far away in audible performance. I think all these metal diaphragm drivers sound better crossed 800 Hz and above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Can the dcx2496 be controlled by computer interface? I Software links towards the bottom of the site. http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DCX2496.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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