So you want to be an audiophile? Venting is allowed!

[pauln]

"I'm curious, what do you consider a modest outlay?"

In round figures, I would estimate if you bought used gear you could get a record player, tube amp \ receiver, and Heresys for about $1500, which would get you about 90% there. New would be maybe twice as much.

Still buying used but getting bigger horns and better tube gear and record player, maybe $3000, getting to a noticably better 98% there. New might be twice as much.

The thing about diminishing returns is that if there comes a threshold beyond which you may still be able to tell the difference, but it is no longer relavent to your enjoyment - you hear music. It is for those that feel they can't stop until they no longer hear a difference that I say they are listening to sound, not music.

[Pete H]

I haven't had the opportunity to listen to any of the older Klipsch speakers but looking forward to doing that when I can. My main goal at this point is to try and power what I have properly (my RF 7's) and deciding between used or new, ss or tube or bi amping the 7's with tubes on top and ss for the lows and with tube gear, just how many watts will these take to be driven properly. I appreciate the suggestions.

[Saturn5]

Try a QSC pro-audio amp for your RF-7s. I'm driving mine with one and it's impressive. The RF-7 has an impedance dip that can challenge some amps. If you get a 2 ohm stable amp, it should be able to keep both your RF-7s and you quite happy.

I don't know what an audiophile is - I just know I love good sound and know what I like when I hear it.

I've got an Outlaw 7500 amp on order. I can't wait to get it installed and do an A-B comparison between it and my QSC.

[Arky]

I've got an Outlaw 7500 amp on order. I can't wait to get it installed and do an A-B comparison between it and my QSC.

You will like it....but not as much as the QSC.

[jacksonbart]

I like good music & I love great music & I could careless about an audiophile.

[Groomlakearea51]

1. How can an amp be worth 5 or 10 or 20K, what are you freeking nuts, look at the components.

Beats me.... maybe around $5k on some considering craftsmanship, tube types, etc., but anything past that is probably paying for the name....

2. Should I go tube or ss? If I go tube; should I build my own, or buy from China so I don't speand the 5 to 20K and get really stupid.

Try both. Some speakers sound very good with tubes and some with ss. If you can build your own tubes there are alot of designs around that could be built for less than $1500.

3. Should I combine the tube and solid state to drive the lower(ss) and upper(tube) end of the speakers?

Good question. I've tried both ways and have had mixed results. In the end it's your room, your speakers and your ears that will be the "decision maker"

4. How can Emotiva, produce such wonderful amps (ss) for so much less than everyone else?

No idea, I've heard good things, but no "one on one" experience with Emotiva.

5. Can 20 watts of clean tube power really drive my RF 7's better than (ss); and if they can, why in the hell can't someone make these ratings compatable?

It may depend upon volume (SPL) at which you want to listen. For "loud".... they need power.... alot....

6. How can a cd player cost 11K? It's just the stupid creaping in again?

For the life of me I cannot see that how a CD player could cost that much.

7. Is there a digital media player that will convert cd, sacd, mp3, dvd and any other combo, with finess covering the demads of the audiophile and HT nut?

Still "studying" that one.

8. Are silver wires really worth the money?

No....

9. Why would you purchase a tube cd player if the digital to analog conversion takes place in the receiver or pre amp? What do the tubes do?

Don't have one; the ss TASCAM units that I have convert the signal in the CD players themselves to analog for output.

10. Should I buy a quality DAC and where do I put it?

Open for discussion by those who have them. I don't so.....

11. I found a tube conditioner that can be placed in multiple locations to smooth out the digital signal for 200.00, sounds like a deal, I should buy 2 of them.

? Not familiar with what you are describing.

12. Is Dean G. really a god? If you read this Dean, I really mean that with all the respect in the world and will be sending you my crossovers from the RF 7's.

Dean is among the pantheon and worshipped by quite a few..... LOL!!! Yes, he is very, very good at crossovers and other things along those lines. Very well respected. You cannot go wrong with him or with Bob on your crossover needs.

13. If I buy Kevlar, composit, crystal, graphite, super secret material, isolation feet that are configured in different geometric shapes, will the world stop spinning on its axis and the sound be better?

The world will lose some rotational force, but they will be localized in space and time in the specific gravity well around your equipment. Just look out for little "event horizons".... and whatever you do, do NOT stick your finger in one... On the other hand, any vibrational dampening material is handy to have and can help alot with vibration induced problems in your equipment. Now as far as to how much to pay for such stuff..... Common sense is the best advice.

14. I want to have a digital (audiophile quality) hard drive jukebox so what should I use? (there's about 2 million opinions on that one Helter Skelter)

2 million and one now..... LOL!!! There are a number of threads about music servers. I'd read them and find someone who has one and see what it does, etc.

15. Why didn't Youthman (You're a good guy and this is just for fun), put a vibrating bed in the movie room for porn?

Because according to his GF, the vibrating mirrors kept falling off the ceiling.....

16. You're still laughing so go to question 17

Ok!!

17. Why do people tend to pay more on E-Bay for used equipment then they can buy new stuff for?

There is a tendency to "believe" that vintage stuff is "better". Is it? Or is it "nostalgia", psycho-acoustics, some weird desire to recreate some musical experience they believe they had when they were 18 years old and heard an amp and a pair of good speakers, etc. There are some used items however, in particular in my experience, that certain amplifiers that command a hefty price when, from the specs, they should sound dismal. The reality, for the most part, is quality is as quality was. There is also a certain sense of "security" involved. If one believes and has always believed that a vintage Pioneer amp is the cat's meow... then it will always be that for the owner. In substance, it's subjective. And.... I suspect really related to nostalgia and the fact that generally certain itemsl, notwithstanding maintenance & repairs to keep them running, will always sound good, regardless of "age".

18. Why don't more people go with 6.1 and hang a really big speaker on the rear wall?

That's where the door is......

19. Why did Klipsch stop building the RF 7 line????????????? Wanted to change the look?????????????????

Good question.

20. If you have read everything to this point, you are either a true audiophile or a wannabee, and in either case, your input is appreciated.

21. Jamison Irish Whisky is really good on the rocks...................................Rock On!

A nice slightly cold Guiness stout will do for me!!!!

[jacksonbart]

Trying to recreate a ballpark rock concert?

Who would want to do that? I saw Jimmy Buffet at Citizen's Bank Park and it sounded horrible, echo city. The best part of any of his concerts is the tailgating, I mean really how many times can one listen to 'Cheeseburger in Paradise' sober.

[SWL]

Most venues have a lot to be desired acoustically........but the ones that do sound really good stay with you.....if you're a goofy audio enthusiast that digs live music done right. [Y]

[Pete H]

1. How can an amp be worth 5 or 10 or 20K, what are you freeking nuts, look at the components.

Beats me.... maybe around $5k on some considering craftsmanship, tube types, etc., but anything past that is probably paying for the name....

2. Should I go tube or ss? If I go tube; should I build my own, or buy from China so I don't speand the 5 to 20K and get really stupid.

Try both. Some speakers sound very good with tubes and some with ss. If you can build your own tubes there are alot of designs around that could be built for less than $1500.

3. Should I combine the tube and solid state to drive the lower(ss) and upper(tube) end of the speakers?

Good question. I've tried both ways and have had mixed results. In the end it's your room, your speakers and your ears that will be the "decision maker"

4. How can Emotiva, produce such wonderful amps (ss) for so much less than everyone else?

No idea, I've heard good things, but no "one on one" experience with Emotiva.

5. Can 20 watts of clean tube power really drive my RF 7's better than (ss); and if they can, why in the hell can't someone make these ratings compatable?

It may depend upon volume (SPL) at which you want to listen. For "loud".... they need power.... alot....

6. How can a cd player cost 11K? It's just the stupid creaping in again?

For the life of me I cannot see that how a CD player could cost that much.

7. Is there a digital media player that will convert cd, sacd, mp3, dvd and any other combo, with finess covering the demads of the audiophile and HT nut?

Still "studying" that one.

8. Are silver wires really worth the money?

No....

9. Why would you purchase a tube cd player if the digital to analog conversion takes place in the receiver or pre amp? What do the tubes do?

Don't have one; the ss TASCAM units that I have convert the signal in the CD players themselves to analog for output.

10. Should I buy a quality DAC and where do I put it?

Open for discussion by those who have them. I don't so.....

11. I found a tube conditioner that can be placed in multiple locations to smooth out the digital signal for 200.00, sounds like a deal, I should buy 2 of them.

? Not familiar with what you are describing.

12. Is Dean G. really a god? If you read this Dean, I really mean that with all the respect in the world and will be sending you my crossovers from the RF 7's.

Dean is among the pantheon and worshipped by quite a few..... LOL!!! Yes, he is very, very good at crossovers and other things along those lines. Very well respected. You cannot go wrong with him or with Bob on your crossover needs.

13. If I buy Kevlar, composit, crystal, graphite, super secret material, isolation feet that are configured in different geometric shapes, will the world stop spinning on its axis and the sound be better?

The world will lose some rotational force, but they will be localized in space and time in the specific gravity well around your equipment. Just look out for little "event horizons".... and whatever you do, do NOT stick your finger in one... On the other hand, any vibrational dampening material is handy to have and can help alot with vibration induced problems in your equipment. Now as far as to how much to pay for such stuff..... Common sense is the best advice.

14. I want to have a digital (audiophile quality) hard drive jukebox so what should I use? (there's about 2 million opinions on that one Helter Skelter)

2 million and one now..... LOL!!! There are a number of threads about music servers. I'd read them and find someone who has one and see what it does, etc.

15. Why didn't Youthman (You're a good guy and this is just for fun), put a vibrating bed in the movie room for porn?

Because according to his GF, the vibrating mirrors kept falling off the ceiling.....

16. You're still laughing so go to question 17

Ok!!

17. Why do people tend to pay more on E-Bay for used equipment then they can buy new stuff for?

There is a tendency to "believe" that vintage stuff is "better". Is it? Or is it "nostalgia", psycho-acoustics, some weird desire to recreate some musical experience they believe they had when they were 18 years old and heard an amp and a pair of good speakers, etc. There are some used items however, in particular in my experience, that certain amplifiers that command a hefty price when, from the specs, they should sound dismal. The reality, for the most part, is quality is as quality was. There is also a certain sense of "security" involved. If one believes and has always believed that a vintage Pioneer amp is the cat's meow... then it will always be that for the owner. In substance, it's subjective. And.... I suspect really related to nostalgia and the fact that generally certain itemsl, notwithstanding maintenance & repairs to keep them running, will always sound good, regardless of "age".

18. Why don't more people go with 6.1 and hang a really big speaker on the rear wall? I have read many of your posts and responses and I knew that I liked you, but now, I really know why...........Most of this was supposed to be fun and you have participated in the spirit of the post, some fun and some real advice. I look forward to sharing ideas in the future and by the way a cold Guiness works for me too.

That's where the door is......

19. Why did Klipsch stop building the RF 7 line????????????? Wanted to change the look?????????????????

Good question.

20. If you have read everything to this point, you are either a true audiophile or a wannabee, and in either case, your input is appreciated.

21. Jamison Irish Whisky is really good on the rocks...................................Rock On!

A nice slightly cold Guiness stout will do for me!!!!

[Pete H]

......just how many watts will these take to be driven properly.

Somewhere between 5W and 500W, depending on what your interests are. Both extremes are represented here, as well as the "I don't care, I just play the music" viewpoint, in which case any old amp will do. "Driven properly" has to have some context. Trying to recreate a ballpark rock concert? Trying to elicit the maximum detail, texture and nuance? Those will require different amps.

I understand and appreciate your response, so it's time to get detailed. My listening room is 13x22 with 8' ceilings. I've got hardwood floors and no heavy furniture or curtains to effect the sound in a negative way. Regarding what my expectations are when listening to music I would have to say that I'm trying to reproduce the same sound as a small jazz bar with an elevated stage and equipment that will sound just as accurate at very low intimate levels, as it will when you just want to zone out and fall into the music. I want the music to sound like you are sitting in a totally dead sound room with accomplished musicians, I want the bass to hit you hard and then be gone without any trace of distortion, unlike the idiots that run around with bass that is nothing but distortion and they think that it sonds good. To me the difference in listening to music and watching a great HD movie comes down to sound effects and the feel and has nothing to do with the music. If none of that makes sense, it's because I'm listning to music.

[hobie1dog]

The older I get, and the more audiophile events I attend, the more I realize I don't want to be an audiophile...I like my music too loud to be an audiophile.[]

[garyrc]

18. Why don't more people go with 6.1 and hang a really big speaker on the rear wall?

I have heard that the sound from a single channel directly behind the listener is sometimes confused with the sound from directly ahead, but I'd sure try 6.1 before investing more $$$ in 7.1 (which is said to lick that problem).

Years ago, I had a single channel directly behind, using the Halfer R - L (difference signal). Yes, it was only ambiance, but I never had a noticeable problem of confusing in front with behind ... occasionally the music would seem to come from inside my head, but, hey, I sometimes have that problem with the system turned off.

[JohnA]

5. Can 20 watts of clean tube power really drive my RF 7's better than (ss); and if they can, why in the hell can't someone make these ratings compatable?

There is no such thing as "tube power". 20 watts is 20 watts. We have the myth because the distortion from a clipping tube amp sounds nicer than the clipping from a SS amp. People regularly clip their tube amps and don't realize it. I bought a pair of vaunted tube monblocks. They were in fact dirtier than my SS Parasound amps. The difference was clearly audible, after an hour or 2 of listening. For the first hour, there was only one audible difference as long and both amps were not over-driven. That was the softer, less authortative bass from the tube amp.

If 20 watts is enough power for your room and tastes, it is enough. If not, go bigger.

[JohnA]

18. Why don't more people go with 6.1 and hang a really big speaker on the rear wall?

I have heard that the sound from a single channel directly behind the listener is sometimes confused with the sound from directly ahead, but I'd sure try 6.1 before investing more $$$ in 7.1 (which is said to lick that problem).

Years ago, I had a single channel directly behind, using the Halfer R - L (difference signal). Yes, it was only ambiance, but I never had a noticeable problem of confusing in front with behind ... occasionally the music would seem to come from inside my head, but, hey, I sometimes have that problem with the system turned off.

I'm running a 6.2 system. The center is an H700 between 2 Heresies and is directly behind my seat. With the levels set properly, the location of the center rear cannot be identified.

[garyrc]

7. Is there a digital media player that will convert cd, sacd, mp3, dvd and any other combo, with finess covering the demads of the audiophile and HT nut?

No, not mp3. mp3 is a trash medium, IMO, and cannot be redeemed. They get away with it because those who listen with headphones get a super spaciality added that tends to render the low quality less noticeable.

For the other media, the new (2011) universal players by OPPO might do the job.

[Groomlakearea51]

I have not changed my general thoughts since 2009. Except Jamison is overpriced.....

[H]

[T.H.E. Droid]

Ah, welcome to the wacky world of Audiophilia.

[mustang guy]

1. How can an amp be worth 5 or 10 or 20K, what are you freeking nuts, look at the components.

Most associate highest price with best.

2. Should I go tube or ss? If I go tube; should I build my own, or buy from China so I don't speand the 5 to 20K and get really stupid.

Little experience here, but my tube receiver is a vintage Pioneer I paid $150 for, and it makes my Heresy's sing!

8. Are silver wires really worth the money?

Not when you can get high temperature superconductor wires made from made from yttrium, barium copper and oxygen. Silver is now obsolete.

9. Why would you purchase a tube cd player if the digital to analog conversion takes place in the receiver or pre amp? What do the tubes do?

They glow pretty!

10. Should I buy a quality DAC and where do I put it?

You know where to put it.

15. Why didn't Youthman (You're a good guy and this is just for fun), put a vibrating bed in the movie room for porn?

Because the virbating bed made the records skip when he had it in his music room.

17. Why do people tend to pay more on E-Bay for used equipment then they can buy new stuff for?

In some countries the taxes on new equipment is very high. It is cheaper to buy good used and skip the import tax. Domestically it is simply lack of intelligence.

18. Why don't more people go with 6.1 and hang a really big speaker on the rear wall?

Now your talking! I am a big advocate of a center rear if you have the space. I like it much more than 5.1. As for hanging it, I guess all that would depend on the rest of the system.

21. Jamison Irish Whisky is really good on the rocks...................................Rock On!

Gonna have to try that!

[Boxx]

1. How can an amp be worth 5 or 10 or 20K, what are you freeking nuts, look at the components.

Most associate highest price with best.

2. Should I go tube or ss? If I go tube; should I build my own, or buy from China so I don't speand the 5 to 20K and get really stupid.

Little experience here, but my tube receiver is a vintage Pioneer I paid $150 for, and it makes my Heresy's sing!

8. Are silver wires really worth the money?

Not when you can get high temperature superconductor wires made from made from yttrium, barium copper and oxygen. Silver is now obsolete.

9. Why would you purchase a tube cd player if the digital to analog conversion takes place in the receiver or pre amp? What do the tubes do?

They glow pretty!

10. Should I buy a quality DAC and where do I put it?

You know where to put it.

15. Why didn't Youthman (You're a good guy and this is just for fun), put a vibrating bed in the movie room for porn?

Because the virbating bed made the records skip when he had it in his music room.

17. Why do people tend to pay more on E-Bay for used equipment then they can buy new stuff for?

In some countries the taxes on new equipment is very high. It is cheaper to buy good used and skip the import tax. Domestically it is simply lack of intelligence.

18. Why don't more people go with 6.1 and hang a really big speaker on the rear wall?

Now your talking! I am a big advocate of a center rear if you have the space. I like it much more than 5.1. As for hanging it, I guess all that would depend on the rest of the system.

21. Jamison Irish Whisky is really good on the rocks...................................Rock On!

Gonna have to try that!

Regarding #21.... Yes, Jamison is good for blended Whiskey, but it's that "single malt" whiskey that can't be beat. Us Scotchofiles know this to be true.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Get busy reading because you're going to need to polish those reduction skills when it comes time to debate everyone else's version of "an experience".